Read The Transcript Below:

Steven (00:51):

Hello everyone, and welcome to the next episode of the Retirement Tech Services podcast, financial Professionals edition. I’m your host, Steven Driver, CPA, and this week I’m excited for a conversation that we haven’t covered before. I’m joined by Brody Rosenfeld from Foundation Financial Planning to talk about pieces of financial and tax planning that can be outsourced. So Brody, welcome to the show.

Brody (01:13):

Hey, Steven. Thank you. Happy to be here. 

Steven (01:15):

So for a little bit of background for our audience, you and I got connected because this last tax filing season, we ended up in a situation at Retirement Tax Services where we were looking for some additional help in the background. Not somebody to come in and take over client meetings or anything like that, but Brody as you know, as our listeners are well aware, there is work that has to get done when it comes to tax planning, tax preparation, financial planning, and so there are resources available. And Brody, you lead a team like that. And so that’s how you and I originally got connected. We’ve done work together. Looking forward to do work together again next tax filing season, but maybe get a little bit of an introduction about yourself and how you ended up in this spot where you’re helping other people with financial planning and doing this outsourced role.

Brody (01:54):

Sure, yeah, I kind of fell into it. I originally was getting into accounting, so I got my CPA, I’m probably one of the only guys who went to college and took an accounting one-on-one course, and I was like, this is amazing. So I got really fired up, switched over from history, which I was studying before it and was kind of going down that path. But when I got into accounting, I realized it was kind of boring, at least what I was doing, not the whole profession. Of course, I know I’m talking to the Retirement Tax Services here. So I made the mistake. I was working at a corporation and I was having a lot of casual water cooler kind of conversation sort of stuff, and my dad was financial planner. I always saw that he loved his job. He was an Ameriprise advisor for like 20-something years.

(02:33):

So he’d be having breakfast watching CNBC, that sort of stuff. And I’d made the mistake of letting it be too well known that I was thinking about exploring financial planning as a career path. So eventually I got the cut from our team and I thought, you know what? This is a good opportunity to kind of explore what’s out there. So I came across another business that no longer exists, but it was pretty much the same business model I have now. So I really kind of fell into it, but I liked it a lot. It suits me well. And basically what we do is we help a variety of financial advisors with different problems that they have. So it’s neat that you’re kind of getting exposed to just different, is it niche or niche, different niches and different systems and different kind of clients. I found it really fun.

(03:18):

So basically help advisors in a variety of different ways, a variety of different problems, and that’s how we got introduced. Definitely tax was not, I mean we do a lot of tax planning as far as financial planning goes, but as far as helping out with returns now was new territory for us. But when I got that message, I was actually in the airport and I texted my team, I’m like, wow, I just got this crazy email. Can we help out with a hundred-something returns? And I was thinking, there’s no way. But everyone on my team is like, yeah, we can do that. We’ve all done that. We’ve all had our tax seasons. And so that’s how we got rolling.

Steven (03:47):

Before we hit record, we were talking a little bit about just how many different things financial advisors anymore are kind of expected to be involved in. And so geez, I mean I have a podcast talking about tax planning and telling advisors, Hey, you need to do more with tax planning. And I know that one of the hesitations from advisors at times is, Hey, what if I commit to all these things for my clients and then I’m left figuring out how’s the work actually going to get done? And I mean this is true regardless of the business model. So hey, we did about 400 tax returns this last tax filing season, all in partnership with advisors and we had an unexpected changeover in our team at the beginning of the year. It’s reality of running a business that’s going to happen to financial advisors as well. And then you’re left in this spot. I’m left in this spot as a business owner saying, Hey, I committed to making sure this work got done. How are we going to make sure this work gets done? And so that’s where it can be incredibly advantageous to have access to resources. So, Brody, most of the people listening to this podcast are not interested in doing tax preparation themselves. That’s not your bread and butter either. So what are the types of things you’re typically helping financial advisors with?

Brody (04:49):

So our typical client is probably a smaller mid-size independent RIA. And basically they want to focus on the meetings, getting clients, the money management strategy, that sort of stuff. But they’re not necessarily fired up of spending 6, 8, 10, 12 hours, whatever, digging through documents, learning the financial planning software, figuring out how to present it, but everybody’s kind of different. So basically what we are is an outsourced planning support firm. So we offer flexible fractional CFP support. So whenever I’m having calls with advisor, we’re kind of going through, well, here’s the planning process from data gathering, the presentation, what do you need help with? And we kind of have it structured where we can do anything. Typically what happens is advisors are going to handle the beginning and the end. So they’re going to get the client gather some of the data. Maybe that’s a fact finder, maybe they’ll organize it a bit, maybe they don’t, and then kick it over.

(05:45):

So we’ll come in and we’ll operate the planning software, we’ll analyze the results and we’ll do all the data entry stuff. We’re on different scenarios. And then where I think the value really comes from creating recommendations. So basically you’re going to have a team of CFPs where it’s like, this is what we focus on thinking about. Well, what’s going on here? What do we want to recommend? And they try to package it on a high-quality deliverable. A lot of the financial plan software, they’re awesome at figuring out the money Carlo and the retirement account kind of stuff. They don’t really tell a story. You don’t really look through EMO and you’re like, cool, I know what’s going on here. I know the recommendations, I know the action items. So I think personally, one of the things I enjoy the most is just data visualization stuff.

(06:27):

So I’m always tweaking stuff in Excel, trying to figure out how can I tell the story better. And then finally, some advisors, it’s become more common after COVID-19 where people have been more like how to put it comfortable with Zoom is helping present this stuff. So some advisors would be like, please do everything. I’m swamped and this is my area of expertise, get the data, do everything, talk my client through it. Whereas more commonly they’re going to say, I really need help with that middle office kind of stuff. I can gather the data, I can present it, but please, I don’t want to spend however many hours in Money Guide Pro or E-money and keeping up with that and that sort of thing. Sorry, it’s probably too long of an answer, but…

Steven (07:05):

There’s a lot of great stuff in there. There’s a few things that stand out to me. I like that you touched on that gap between, there’s a lot of really cool tools out there that will do a lot of the more objective or technical work for you, but you touched on it that there’s still a gap for most of these software between what the data is and even processing the data correctly and then be able to communicate it and make recommendations based on it, at least to this point. Somebody can send me a link if I’m wrong, and there’s a new software I haven’t heard of, but most of these software still have that gap where a human still needs to be involved to make sure that the data really went in correctly, that when the data comes back out that we’re taking that moment or maybe several moments to apply some professional judgment and say, okay, based on the information coming back out, here’s what needs to get recommended. Here’s how it needs to get communicated, here’s what we need to do with it.

Brody (07:53):

For sure. And I think having those collaborative conversations is really important. I realized when I started hiring, when I’m like, well, do I remain a boutique single-man shop or do I hire other planners? And you’ve met a number of ’em, all of ’em I guess. But you realize we all know stuff that the others don’t. So I think sometimes you think I have a CFP, I’m good. But then you get a meeting together with multiple people and everybody’s got their different experiences. So I think just kind of piggybacking off of that gap is you can then take that to the next level by saying, well, it’s not going to just be me. By the time this goes to the client, I’ll have looked at it a couple other people and maybe Brody’s firm have looked at it and you do all that. The odds, I mean, I guess nobody’s going to be perfect a hundred percent of the time, but still the odds that you go to the client and something’s material or you’ve missed something material, I think go down tremendously if you have multiple people putting eyes on it.

(08:52):

But yeah, I mean as far as the software goes, it’s really the big three. It’s EMO Money Guide Pro, right? Capital. You’re seeing more smaller contenders like income lab advisor, and Holistiplan, right? Everybody, holistic plan kind of took off. But yeah, I think you’re right. I think a lot of what we do, I think where we add the most value is closing that gap and saying, okay, everything’s in the software, but what does it mean? How do we communicate that to the client where they understand where it’s actionable, where they’re not just like, cool, you hit me with a bunch of charts and graphs and results, but I don’t really know what to do. So how do you turn that into, you are good to retire at 60 if you do X, Y, and Z, right, basically. 

Steven (09:29):

What’s standing out to me from that Brody is that there really are so few opportunities in this industry to really get that behind-the-scenes insight from how other people are really doing the plans. Yes, there’s podcasts, there’s webinars, there’s speaking to all these things that I normally do, and there’s great value in those things, but it’s different when someone else is looking under the hood with you. And that can really challenge to do because even as people have masterminds, as they have peers, you’re not typically sending over your client documents and saying, Hey advisor friend of mine, why don’t you just recreate this plan for me? We’ll see how our insights differ. But with the team that you’ve built, and obviously this is a formal relationship with all the confidentiality and nondisclosures and all of that, so that we’re doing this in a secure and safe way, but I’m having a hard time thinking of a better way to take this beyond theoretical and really get someone else’s insight on how you’re presenting plans.

Brody (10:19):

Yeah, I mean it’s kind of like a school project. You can go do a case study and then you are reviewing it and somebody else, you can see all their people present it, which I think could be true multiple ways. It’s one what I just said about you having a team now, right? We’re going to all put our heads together. But also what I was saying earlier where I think it’s really a benefit that we’re seeing all these different plans and systems, we almost offer some, it’s not a formal offering, but we kind of slide into the role of practice consultants sometimes. Is this a good idea? Should I charge for this? How are other people doing it? So I mean, I think that’s kind of interesting too, right? I mean, you definitely see stuff that doesn’t work, and I don’t mean that offensively to anybody, but it’s like they’re going through a process just doesn’t make sense. It is inefficient. The client’s not picking it up, and then you see other systems where you’re like, yeah, this is really wrong, this is high quality. The client’s getting it, it’s being communicated. So I’m kind trying to nudge people in that direction. 

Steven (11:10):

Brody, for someone who’s never outsourced before, what does this look like? Again, I’m not a financial advisor, so I know what my experience was like, but for an advisor who’s going to outsource for the first time, how long does it take to actually get the systems and processes in place where your team’s delivering value back? I mean, how are they screening to make sure they really like you and your team and actually want to work with you? Just what does that process look like? Yeah, I mean,

Brody (11:32):

You should have a number of discovery calls to try to figure out are we a good fit? Honestly, the best way to figure it out is just to do it. We don’t have a very scary client engagement agreement. It’s basically a handshake on paper. So there are no minimums or quarterly quotas or startup fees or anything like that. So often advisors that are kind like, no, don’t want to try this will work, will it not? We can talk for 20 hours, but you’re going to know what, so let’s just do a test plan. I’ll do it at a discounted rate often and just figure it out. So usually after one, two, or three plans, we’ll kind of have a, let’s just circle back and just say, well, how did that go? Was that good? Was that bad? Was it organized? Was it a mess? How do we make sure our practices are in sync?

(12:21):

We know what’s going on as well as getting that stoke aligned. So sometimes an advisor will come back and say, Hey, that was great, but how can I be more efficient? I want to make sure that this is sustainable, my business model. Whereas other advisors might say they’re the reverse. They might say, that was great. How do I offload more? I’ve got money. We’re trying for these plans. Can you take some more of this off my plate? Right? So I’m not worried about, so making sure that tug of war is kind of like where you want it to be. No right answer. It just depends on the firm and your needs and that sort of stuff. But generally how it works. If discovery calls, we’ll sign a client engagement agreement, we’ll try out a case so the buyers will kind of kick over whatever data they have.

(12:59):

Usually, that’s access to some sort of cloud or vault, whatever they’re using. We’ll go through create the plan, do everything I mentioned earlier, and then have that collaborative meeting. And after that meeting, ideally advisors got that 10 out, 10 confidence that they can go and present the plan. But if they want help, we don’t. They say, Hey, can you be on this meeting with the client? We can kind of do that. So we go through that whole process. Generally, it’s a couple week process, depending upon how crazy the client is. Maybe 1, 2, 3 weeks, something like that. Yeah, I mean that’s basically how it works.

Steven (13:32):

Brody, do you have insight into the situation that advisors find themselves in when they’re typically coming to you? Is this that casework is growing and they need help or they had somebody leave their team or they’re exploring adding a paraplanner, but I dunno what that would look like. So they go to you instead? What do you know about that?

Brody (13:49):

All the above. Sometimes people are looking for that flexibility. They’re like, I don’t have enough plans to hire full-time. We had one advisor recently, he came on board and we did a ton of plans. We were going crazy one month and then the month after it basically taking a month off so he had no charge, and then we can ramp back up when you want. So I think a lot of people that they’re looking to hire, they have a planning need. Either they need that expertise that we talked about, or maybe they have that expertise, but they want to free up their time. And then there’s that decision. Do you hire or do you outsource? I think the people who decide they want to outsource are people who want that flexibility or just want less friction. I’ve been hearing a lot from people where they’re just like, man, I hate the HR aspect.

(14:34):

I hate hiring and firing. And one guy, they had an advisor, they were about to use us, they decided to hire instead. The guy lasted about a year and left, but he happened to leave with a couple of big clients and they’re so kind of limiting that poaching risk. That’s kind of another reason. But yeah, I would say it’s basically people looking for either flexibility, expertise, which can be a second set of eyes or just less friction in the process. Yeah, I mean usually I think the primary thing we solve is people, it’s just something they don’t want to do. They’re saying, I either don’t have the time or don’t want to do this. There’s money to be made. I don’t want to leave it on the table. Can you do it for me? So that’s kind of what we’re trying to fill there. 

Steven (15:15):

Like I said before, it seems like there’s growing pressure on advisors to find more ways to deliver value. We’ll openly admit that I’m part of that push as it relates to tax planning, but there’s just this stark reality of if you’re going to deliver the value, there’s work that goes behind it. And you kind of outline some of your options there, especially as you’re working with smaller RIAs or smaller teams that some of it might be maybe long-term they want to hire, but in the interim, what do we do until we have enough work to support a full-time employee? So yeah, that flexibility piece is huge.

Brody (15:50):

No, I think it is. I think people do that. They also like to, if you’re a small shop, to kind of boost up how to put it, your perception. So if you go to somebody’s website, you just see the solo advisor and some of them aren’t always CFP. So I’ve bet people say, I need a CFP on my website. So I stopped getting that question right. Well, do you have a CFP or something like that. So I think having planners with multiple certifications, I’m a CPA, a CFP. Another guy on my team is also a CPA, a CFP. We’ve got two other CFPs. One of them is a certified financial therapist as well. So just kind of having that collection of certifications and then having people that focus on planning. Basically a lot of our clients, without going too deep, but it’s kind of like mini family office stuff where I’m working with advisors for complex high net worth clients, whole team approach, multiple times a year, planning kind of ongoing, that sort of stuff.

(16:47):

So it’s like a high fee, high value, high-quality service sort of thing. So if through doing that work, I came across an estate attorney that I really liked tax strategist and insurance subject matter expert, and I kind of tried to integrate them into my firm. So basically what I’m trying to offer is for a small advisor, you’re on the golf course or wherever and you meet that big fish to be able to actually have that capacity if you need it to say, okay, you want to go to many family office, no worries. We got full handle money management. We also got a team of financial planners. We’ve got an estate attorney, we’ve got a tax strategic, we’ve got insurance specialists. We integrate that, all right, and almost turn your firm into a fractional virtual family office sort of thing. So that’s the kind of thing where I find a lot of advisors love that idea, but they don’t always use it. It’s just knowing there’s that arrow in the quiver if I need it right? If I need a 20 million AUM client, I want to land them, I’m probably going to have an easier time if I say, Hey, we’re going to bring in all the big guns and you know what I mean? That sort of stuff.

Steven (17:48):

That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Brody, one of the questions I always like to ask people, especially on behalf of my audience who might be exploring this for the first time, is how does this go wrong? Where do you see challenges in this dynamic? Because I mean, I like you, I had a great experience working with your team, but I’m just going to go ahead and bet that you, like every other business owner, everywhere runs into challenges at times. So what does that look like?

Brody (18:09):

Yeah, I mean, I think it’s almost always something with organization or communication or both. So I try to do a really good job as best this job as I can at the prospect calls of setting clear expectations. Here’s what the call stays, here’s a turnaround time, is that sort of stuff. But I think where plans get messy is when you get into a case and the organization is just terrible. They’re looking through and you’re like, man, there’s 70 files in here. Most of ’em are outdated. We’re missing what we really need. You sending out emails like, Hey, we’re working on this case. We need X, Y, and Z. It does get answered for two weeks. Then you hear back later and they’re like, by the way, the client’s coming in tomorrow. What’s going on? We’re like, well, yeah, we sent you that email. So I was actually had a meeting with my team this morning with an advisor who’s kind of missing an admin staff, kind of had somebody quit on them and we’re like, all right, we got to make sure that this thing runs smoothly because how to put it an advisor, it’s not going to be a chaotic relationship for long.

(19:08):

It’s either going to get chaotic or they’re going to leave. Somebody’s not going to keep paying us to, you know what I mean? If you can’t close anything. So I think with us trying to help advisors, some have really good systems already. They’re like, we’re ready to roll. We can gather data. We’ve got a cloud. Everything’s organized. We have what we need. You are good. Whereas other advisors, they haven’t filled that role yet and they’re too busy to really do it directly. So I think that’s when it’s the most messy is when we’re like, okay, nothing. We don’t have what we need. You’re not answering emails or how organized, how do we make this efficient? And then just being direct and communicating if there’s anything that we want to change. That’s why we’re trying to be more proactive at forcing those circle-back sorts of calls after our first couple of plans and say, how did that go for you?

(19:53):

Because chances are, if there’s something you didn’t like and everybody’s got their own tastes, we can probably address it, but we just have to kind of put that out there and say like, Hey, this output’s too long. I’m going to do something shorter or I want to cover this. So yeah, I think really communication organization, the only other times it doesn’t work is when the scope just doesn’t make sense for a business. Maybe they don’t have the revenue to really afford this, or maybe they really do need somebody full-time. I’ve lost a couple clients that I really liked working with who tried to hire me and I decided to keep my business because they were just too big. I mean, I would’ve kept doing it, but at some point, the cost-benefit of outsourcing, it’s tougher. If you’re actually doing a ton of volume.

(20:34):

You’re like, yeah, I could hire somebody pretty good for a lot less cost. Once you get past that certain level, and I think that point’s probably somewhere in the high 20, 30-ish hours a week of work that you need, you might as well hire somebody to do it. But if you need 10, or 15 hours a week, I think outsourcing makes a lot of sense. If you need 40, happy to do it, but you could probably find a cheaper solution. So I think scope, communication organization, those are kind of the main things that we try to keep. Okay.

Steven (21:06):

Well, I think for a lot of listeners it can feel like, Hey, outsourcing this thing I haven’t tried before, I’d have to create an entire new process. We’d have to explore this thing and do our world totally different. And I would really challenge that belief because as you’re describing this, really what this is is a chance for advisors, whether they’re going to outsource ever or not, to just reflect on, Hey, do I have good systems and processes documented? Because whether you’re going to outsource or you’re going to hire a new team member or hire a VA, whatever that looks like, you either have good systems and processes or don’t. And so that’s what it was for us as we started working with you was just this moment of, Hey, how well defined our processes? And sure, we had to make some slight adjustments to say, okay, this is somebody outside the organization as opposed to inside the organization, but for the most part, it’s our process and here’s how Brody and the team are going to fit into it. And so if you’re listening to this conversation and thinking, geez, I could never outsource because how would I possibly explain to ’em how we do all these different things? You should probably take this an indication that you need to reevaluate your systems and processes, whether you ever outsource or not. 

Brody (22:05):

Sure. Yeah, I think that’s an interesting point too, kind of like, I don’t know if this is a prerequisite to work or not, but people have different comfort levels of delegated, right? Advisors that are kind, they call it the Harvard Business School model, didn’t Bush do it or whatever, where the whole thought is, I’m going to try to put smart people in place and I’m not going to worry about what they’re doing sort of thing. So sometimes advisors are like, Hey, you guys are all experienced certified. I trust you that you know how to do a plan. Do you have a good process? Do you have a good output? Do you know how to communicate? Obviously there’s going to be a smoother day one transition if somebody’s like, Hey, just do a plan than if somebody’s like, you want to get kind really granular as far as we want to kind rework everything. And that’s not that we mind doing that. People that have concrete defined systems, we’re always happy to learn and kind of fit that. But that’s probably another sort of element as to how long it takes us to get up and running is it’s kind of like, are we going to learn a whole new system or is it kind of like, this is your area. I’m working on this recipe or working on that recipe and we’re going to make sure we’re talking to each other. You know what I’m getting at?

Steven (23:11):

No, it is a great point though, Brody, there’s so much more. Outsourcing doesn’t just exist in this silo all by itself. It’s a great opportunity to reflect on how other things within your business work that topic of delegation, again, whether we’re talking about outsourcing or just running a business, that’s just a really important topic. It’s one we’ve covered on the podcast before. We’re really big fans of our friends over at Belay and the work they do with providing people with virtual assistance has been a game changer for me to have a virtual assistant that I can delegate to. But it is an evolution. You rewind the clock a few years ago, and I would’ve thought, ah, half the stuff I now delegate, I would’ve told you I could never delegate. And it’s the same. I mean, outsourcing is just a form of delegation. And so the people I find doing the best, whether it’s as a financial advisor or in other industries, the people who are constantly looking for, how do I delegate more so that I’m spending my time on my highest and best use? That’s what this comes back to. That’s what you really kick this off with, Brody, is that people are leveraging your team so they can spend time on what they really want to be spending their time on, whether that’s prospecting or meeting with clients, whatever that might be. Delegation is just a way to amplify that.

Brody (24:15):

Yeah, I mean it’s really the only way to grow, right? If you’re going to be the guy who does everything, you can definitely do that, but you have to pass the limitations, right? Yeah. I mean, certainly, if you want to decent some quality of life. So what’s interesting is I’ve had to deal with that myself as a business owner, as we grow a little bit, I have to find myself shifting from like, am I Brody to the financial planner or Brody to the business owner right now on both. And I kind like that. But yeah, I mean, it’s funny because I had to be comfortable delegating as well. I’m hiring good planners and obviously you spend a lot of time initially making sure we’re all up to speed and everybody’s doing well. But eventually, I kind of realized I got to just not in the sense of just trust that I got good people in place. I going to do a good job, make sure everything’s running smooth, but try not to micromanage ’em, right? To get in there and say, well, I would do it with this color scheme, or I’m going to word it this way, that sort of stuff. So it’s interesting that in my own business, I’m sitting there telling people, Hey, you ought to delegate all at the same time. I’m like, I got to learn how to delegate. Right?

Steven (25:14):

No, that’s an interesting dynamic there. So Brody, really appreciate you taking the time to come on and share your insight. Help us learn more about what’s going on over at Foundation Financial Planning. We want to talk about action items because that’s where we think that value comes from. The first thing that comes to mind out of this conversation that we’re having is that, again, whether you ever outsource or not, I would highly recommend that everyone listening, take the time to pick one process within your company. One, I would say client service focus process and just go through this self-reflection of how many hours of meetings would I have to to be able to delegate this to someone else. And you can think about this through the lens of outsourcing, but the idea of outsourcing something to Brody’s team makes you think, geez, I’d have to spend a week on the phone, explain to them what we do before they could ever get going.

(26:00):

You need to redo your processes and if you’re not sure where to go with that, get signed up for the RTS Tax Summit in September. We have a particular speaker coming to cover that topic. Belay will be there talking about delegation in general. But that’s one thing that everyone listening to this podcast could go do. Pick one of your processes and think about it through that lens. How long would this take me to explain someone else? And if it’s hours and hours and hours, you need a better way to document and explain that process. Brody, as you think about whether it’s outsourcing or running a business, you talked about being a financial advisor yourself. What are other action items out of this conversation that you would recommend that people take? I

Brody (26:34):

Mean, I think that’s kind of the best one that you hit there is kind of reviewing your process, trying to make sure that your financial planning process is robust, right? I mean, you mentioned earlier, I think there’s more of a pressure to do more. I think Robo-advisors and increased competition are a big reason of that. I mean, I’ve known a lot of people where they’re like, oh, I don’t really need a money manager anymore. I can get on Betterment or Wealth Run, and they’ll, but I think you could really figure out what am I doing and how do I differentiate and how do I kind futureproof myself as more Robo-advisors come on board as AI and all that sort of stuff. To me, that comes down to really ongoing recommendation, action, item focused, financial planning, covering all the topics, being that go-to person. So I think evaluating the process and what are we doing for financial planning right now? Is it robust? Is it really high quality? And if not, how do we get there? Right? 

Steven (27:26):

That’s perfect. Definitely a time to take that self-reflection and make sure that you’re leveling up as advisors, as business owners. Brody, if people are interested in learning more about what you’re doing, what’s the best way to follow up?

Brody (27:36):

For sure. Check on my website, which I guess you guys are going to have linked up, right? So I won’t sell it all out, but you can go to my website, take a look, we’ve got some sample plans on there and stuff like that. You can read a little bit more about what we do. I’m always happy to have an intro call. So my email is on the website. Feel free to shoot me a message if you want to jump on the phone or a Zoom meeting and kind of talk a little bit about your process, what you’d love to get out of it, and just kind figure out if we’re a good fit. So yeah, always happy to talk to people.

Steven (28:02):

Perfect. And again, my biggest takeaway here is that whether you’re going to go outsource or going to go in-house, whether you go with Brody’s team or someone else, there’s lots of great resources in the industry. The biggest point is that you’re being intentional, that you’re thinking about not just how you’re serving your clients today, but what if something unexpected happened with your team? What if you wanted to grow more and not spend so much time on some of this back office stuff? Have an intentional plan. That’s where the most value comes from. So Brody, thanks again for being here. Really appreciate your time.

Brody (28:30):

Yeah, thank you as well. Appreciate it as well.

Steven (28:32):

And to everyone listening, until next time, good luck out there. And remember to tip your server, not the IRS!