Read The Transcript Below:

Steven (00:51):

Hello everyone, and welcome to the next episode of the Retirement Tax Services Podcast, Financial Professionals edition. I’m your host, Steven Jarvis, CPA, and this week on the show we’re going to talk about why in the world anyone in a financial planning office would ever get a tax-related designation. And joining me for this conversation is none other than Jamie Shilanski. Jamie, welcome back to the show.

Jamie (01:12):

Hey, Steven Jarvis, I should caveat that with not just a tax designation, but have them go get their tax designation and we have no intentions of preparing taxes in-house. So why am I making them do that and not doing the returns?

Steven (01:29):

Yeah, that is part of the conversation I want to have because, and I’m super excited we have this conversation. I’m really excited for the people on your team who are doing this. I’m a bit of a taxer myself, so I’m all for it, but I know that you are hyper-intentional about how you have your team spend their time and how you look at how this delivers value to your clients. So talk about why you, not just one person, you have a whole group of people where you’re saying, Hey, you’re professional development right now is leveling up taxes.

Jamie (01:55):

For sure. So our RIA up in Anchorage, Alaska is Shilanski And Associates. My mom and dad, Floyd and Rosa started it back in 1981. We’ve grown to an enterprise office and we absolutely love what we do. So we have about 15 employees. Half of them are local to Alaska and the other half are hybrid across the country. And one of the things as part of our employment that we’re really passionate about making sure is that we have professional development set in place for our team members. So our advisors, they kind of get that professional development goes with the territory. They know they got to get their CEs, they know they have to do these different designations. I don’t let it stop with the advisors. This has to be everyone. So we have three different pods in our office. We have the financial advisors, we have the relationship managers.

(02:41):

Those are not people who give advice, but people who facilitate the client relationship throughout the year. And then we have our operations personnel and our operations personnel is responsible for the movement of money. So I don’t look at this as a pyramid, I look it as a wheel. It takes all of us to keep this bus rolling down the street. So when it comes to professional development, I find that most team members are like, yes, I love learning. That would be so great. I want to be a part of this. What should I go learn? I have no idea what to read, what to listen to, what programs to sign up for, what conferences to go attend. It becomes really perplexing and I know you because you have to do your CPE, but then you’re always looking one or two years in advance to see where are the conferences that I should be at that other top advisors are at already.

(03:29):

And so when it comes to that type of planning, I had to sit down with them and say, okay guys, what does this roadmap look like for the next couple of years? And in our advisory practice, we do a lot of tax planning. And so none of us are CPAs. We don’t prepare tax returns. In fact, shameless plug, we partner with Retirement Tax Services and Retirement Tax Services gets to do our tax returns for clients, but it’s still pivotal for our advisors and our personnel to have some elementary at least understanding of the tax code and how it applies to three different categories of people, right? Because as financial professionals, we’re always going to be dealing with single individuals, married individuals, and businesses. I mean, most of our clients, even if you don’t specialize in a business, you are going to come across business tax returns. You’re just going to, they have a side hustle, they’ve been invited to be a partnership, they start their own little thing going on. You’re going to have to have some type of elementary knowledge about taxes.

Steven (04:39):

And Jamie, as I work with advisors all over the country, especially the advisors we partner with through RTS where we’re doing hands-on tax prep and planning, the situations where I’m seeing the best outcomes for the client is when the advisor, and then taking that step further, like you’re talking about, is when people on the advisor’s team have some kind of above average knowledge for advisors, you probably don’t have CPA level knowledge and that’s fine, that’s not your area of specialty. But in fact, I was just talking to another RTS Premiere member this last week who is putting his paraplanners through our 37-point masterclass when reviewing tax returns because then he’s got more people on his team who have this more than rudimentary knowledge of what’s on a tax return. It helps with, Hey, why are we asking for these things? When a client calls and says, Hey, Jamie told me to get this thing for, I’m not really sure I need to, instead of your team member saying, well, let me go check with Jamie, maybe we need that.

(05:29):

They can immediately say, oh, I know that Jamie was looking at how much you need to make for your estimated payments, and that’s why she was asking for this. I know it makes a really big difference, so please, here’s how you’re going to send this in. And even just those small things improve the client experience. And then Jamie, I know you’re really big on this too. One of the things I look at with my team members in professional development is how does it help them personally? And so every one of my employees pays taxes. I know they pay taxes, it gets us help from their paycheck. And so I want the added benefit of them improving their own situation as well as serving all my clients.

Jamie (06:02):

Oh, a hundred percent. We wrapped up this tax season and I was working with one of our financial advisors, super smart guy, but most advisors that are between the zero and 10 years of their career path, they don’t have enough time under their belt to really dove into the complexities of different tax scenarios and situations. So I was talking to him and I could tell he wasn’t getting the small business part of it. And so for them, for a small business was just a Schedule C. It just wasn’t, something wasn’t clicking, wasn’t going all the way. And so I called him up and I said, Hey, listen, I’m going to talk to you. I’m going to use my client voice because that’s how I best know how to describe this to you. And this also gives me the ability to say, I’m going to start at elementary level and then I’m going to talk to you.

(06:50):

Like you’ve never heard of this before. I don’t mean to talk down to you, right? I know you have the CFP, I know you have all these designations. I know you do all the CE credits, but I’m going to start here at zero and then I’m going to start building my way up because if you forget one important step from zero to five, great, I’ve covered it. And now we can go 5 to 10. And as we went through this, so it was a financial advisor in our enterprise office, you’re a W2 employee, but you have the option of earning 1099 income as well. So now he’s got a mixed-income situation. His wife stopped working a few years ago and she started her own business very successfully. So now she has a Schedule C. And so when it came to preparing their own taxes, there was a big disconnect because what I kept hearing him ask for was, okay, well we can’t do a Schedule C, we need to do a Schedule E.

(07:41):

I was like, well, no, hold on a second. That’s real estate. Let’s back up over here. When I started talking to him about this, just this elementary level of things, and it started check-marking things for him and Steven, this is low IQ stuff. This is the kind of stuff that most people when we start our business, it’s because we either accidentally stumbled into a business or we thought we could do something smarter than everyone else. And so you’re so busy, you’re so busy hustling and doing all of these things that you forget to put shoes on the cobbler’s kid, you forget to take pictures of receipts, you forget to document expenses, you forget to justify those expenses. And for him, his wife had started up, a company very successfully, took off wildflower through the Pacific Northwest, and as they started hustling, they started buying a bunch of equipment. And as they started buying all these startup expenditures, they weren’t taking receipts, they weren’t documenting those, and they didn’t think that they could write them off. And so at the end of the tax year, which of course you’ve got January 1st to December 31st, but when are most people talking to you about their taxes? In March? 

Steven (08:53):

February, March.

Jamie (08:54):

Yeah, February. So we’re having a conversation in March and he’s like, oh my gosh, I didn’t take receipts of any of this kind of stuff. Can I go back and I use my credit card, can I do constructive receipts? What can I do? And then we started going through all the steps of how to document and then what areas on the Schedule C apply? And he’s like, gosh, this just seems like so much work and it is work, right? And he’s like, should I go through the effort of doing this? And I said, great. Well, you have two paths that you can take. One, you don’t have to write that stuff off. The IRS will gladly take a hundred percent of any of the money that they think that they are owed, but most business owners have things that they can write off. So those $20, those $30, those $50, those $500 purchases, you get to deduct on that schedule C. And so he said, well, if I go back, he’d owed $5,000. And I went back, did this exercise, and he came up with $2,500 as deductible. And so as we talked about it and I said, what is your hourly rate? What are you earning right now? And was this exercise worth this time of going through? And he’s like, yes. It was just hard.

Steven (10:11):

Yeah,

Jamie (10:11):

Yeah, sure is hard. That’s why you shouldn’t be doing it in February or March. You should be doing it every single month, but another conversation.

Steven (10:19):

And it can certainly be, I really appreciate you giving that story to go along with this because especially as we get on podcasts, as we write articles, you and I both produce a lot of content. I think it can come across to the reader or to the listener as, oh, here’s this easy thing. Go do it. It magically gets done. Check the box and move on. For you and I both, that’s never the intention behind our message because this stuff takes work. We put out the content to help people do the right kind of work and to focus that time and make it as productive as possible. But there are so many different options for learning. So I want to come back around for a second here because it’s not just that you’re having your team members focus on learning more about taxes. You’re specifically encouraging multiple of your team members to get the enrolled agent designation, which comes with a lot of studying. It comes with review courses, it comes with proctored exams. So why not just curate a list for them of articles they can go read or podcasts they can listen to. Why take the step of the actual designation?

Jamie (11:12):

So the enrolled agent covers three main areas, so it covers individual tax returns, business tax returns, and then how you represent yourself in front of the IRS. So it’s three sections, three different examinations that they have to go and learn. Now, there’s very reasons why we do this because we could sit down and I mean you spent an hour with my baby brother, Micah Schlanski. You’re going to learn, so tax planning and elevate your practice. You spent a day with you at your RTS tax summit in September, and you are going to learn so much more than you would in this enrolled agent class. But the reason I want my people to go take this, and I’m having our financial advisors, I’ve got an operation person sitting in there and a relationship manager person sitting in those because they see all of the information. We go out and we ask our clients for all of their tax information every single year, and sometimes we get working papers, sometimes we don’t.

(12:07):

But most of the time for 99% of our clients, we have copies of their tax returns every single year they get filed. And I want my team to know what they’re looking at. I want them to know what they’re looking at with confidence, not to give advice, but to understand what I’m asking them for and why it matters. I want my relationship managers, when they are scheduling a prospect meeting and we ask for the last three years of taxes from that prospect, I want them to know why I want that information. I want to see changes in income. I want to see all of the areas we could have gone through with that 37-point checklist and help them so that I have a better prospect experience and then I can also go on to build their 10-year tax plan. Now, another reason that we have people go through the enrolled agent class is anyone who’s married out there knows stranger in a uniform, I need somebody else to teach them this material because at some point I’m the most common voice. I’m the one that’s always giving them this information. And if you’re married and your spouse asks you a question and you give them the correct answer, but in five feet they see a stranger and that stranger chimes in with also the exact same thing that you just said, which was the correct answer, who’s more believable? You or a stranger? It’s the stranger. And God forbid they’re in a uniform because they will be gospel at that point. Nothing. Yeah.

Steven (13:37):

I don’t know what your experience was, Jamie. I think I was about 10 years into my marriage before that stopped bothering me, and now I’m fine with it. I understand this concept if I’ve said the same thing over and over, but Celsey believes it from someone else. I’m just excited that she believes it and it works the same way in both directions. The other thing I’ll say, and I think this speaks to what you’re talking about, is it’s a really great forcing mechanism because Google has all the information on taxes. The tax code is public information. You absolutely could save probably a few thousand dollars on study courses on exams, certainly the time you put in, yep, your library card will get you the information, but it’s not, you already have that option and you didn’t take it. And so sometimes making that financial investment to have that forcing mechanism is the difference on whether or not these things actually happen.

(14:20):

Because if we don’t have the system in place, if we just say, Hey, here’s the checklist, go practice this a whole bunch of times, then they do it once and the practice one they picked feels easy. It’s one they’re familiar with. They’re like, oh, I get this. I don’t need to practice it a bunch more times. And to your point before, if they’re only hearing from you, they see your casual confidence that is hard-earned through hundreds if not thousands of tax return reviews, and they mistake your casual confidence for this is easy. And so yeah, I love the forcing mechanisms in so many areas to say, no, you need to put in the time and ideally you’re putting in the time in real situations with real clients, but that’s not always the reality. Sometimes we need other mechanisms for being able to put that time.

(15:03):

Pardon the interruption. You know that here at the Retirement Tax Services podcast, we are all about helping you take action, and we have an exciting opportunity to do just that at a whole other level for a limited time. We are opening spots in the RTS community through our Essentials and Premiere memberships. These are both fantastic opportunities to get direct access to resources being used by hundreds of advisors across the industry to level up the way they deliver value on tax planning. Whether you’re looking for something self-directed in our Essentials membership or something a little bit more customized with opportunities for direct engagement as part of our Premiere membership, this is for every advisor who is serious about tax planning. So go out to retirementtaxservices.com/memberships and get signed up today while spots are still available.

Jamie (15:56):

So whenever I do my annual review, and a couple of things to keep in mind, if you’re thinking about bringing this back to your team and you’re a financial advisor out there listening and you’re like, wow, I’d really want my team to go through this. I don’t know if they’d be open or willing to do it. If you have team members that are not willing to take on continuing education if they’re not willing to grow their career, I don’t know why they’re still part of your team and that is fostered in our community at Shilanski and Associates. We are always in pursuit of leveling up in education. And so if I had a team member that’s like, no, I don’t like to do this. I punch in, I punch out, you have a job. I want people after a career and this is what it takes to have that career, and I want them to have the confidence like when these, I’ve got five people going through the EA course right now.

(16:40):

Two are financial advisors and the three others, and when they get the certification and they become an enrolled agent, this is going to give them such a tool in their tool belt. They’re going to feel so good about passing this and feel that they have a certain level of knowledge. Now, the second part is I also tie compensation to it. So not for my financial advisors because your pay structure is different than the other W2 employees on the relationship management and operations, but if you want to have a pay raise at our firm, you’re in control of that. We’re not sitting there doing cost of living adjustments. I’m saying, great, what’s your professional development course? What are you going to learn? How’s it going to benefit the firm? How’s it going to benefit you? Where’s your growth? And then upon successful completion, then I will normally do a pay incentive with all of them, and that makes it great for them to go through.

(17:33):

I don’t pay for study off time. So one of the things that I talk to them about when I sit down, I go through my professional development packet is I say, I can provide the money. I pay for the classes as part of their professional development expense. I can provide you with what to go learn and tell you education is good for you. I cannot provide you with motivation. And I draw a triangle out on the center of the paper for them so I can do two, you’ve got to do the other. Third, you’ve got to be the one motivated to go learn this. Steven, I just have to take a second to brag, and I know it’s early on, but my three, everyone’s a kid to me, but the three young ones in the office who are all between the ages of 22 and 25, they’re crushing it.

(18:17):

They’ve got a text message stream created. They have study dates and check-ins on Sunday afternoons. They’re going through, okay, what did you understand who understood this? And then they’re sharing their test results. And so their practice quizzes, they’re sharing their testing quizzes and saying, okay, who’s the strongest one in this department? Great, can you help me understand this concept? Where are you weak at? Let me do this. I mean, people talk all the time about this generation of kids coming up. That’s how you raise them, right? It’s people like us, people like your audience listening and taking the time to sit ’em down and saying, I can do two out of three. You got to do this. Third one, I’m going to show you how to go do it and empower them and it’s phenomenal. I’m super, we’ll see if they all pass. That’s important part. I only pay for one test, so I’ll pay for one exam. You fail. That’s on your own. You got to have skin in the game now.

Steven (19:09):

So much great stuff in there. One of the things that’s standing out to me is definitely that comradery, that accountability is really what it comes down to. I mean, yes, there’s an excitement in doing things that other people are doing, but a lot of it’s just that accountability. And not everybody listening has a team of 15 people where they can easily say, okay, let me group people up. But honestly, Jamie, you already mentioned that’s one of the reasons we do things like the RTS Summit so that people can sit down and listen to how Micah presents these things, how I present these things. Some of the other great speakers who we are bringing, but it’s also so we can put you in a room with 150 other advisors who are also looking to level up, not that everyone there is going after their EA. That’s the topic for today. You’re surrounding yourself with other people who you can ask questions. Jamie, one of the questions I have for you as we talk about this is I want to know specific examples for you’re putting an operations person through the EA exam. What do you think is going to be different before the exam versus after the exam as far as how they serve clients?

Jamie (20:03):

One, the number of questions that come back to me, so I’m problem-solving for time. You want to know the difference between a very affluent, successful person and just a person that works hard is their ability to delegate. And when you delegate, it doesn’t mean you’re just giving it away and you’re done. You don’t have anything to do with it. It means deliberately taking the time and to everyone out there that says, you know what? It’d be so much faster if I did it myself. Well, of course it would. It would be faster this one time, this one time it would be faster. But what happens when we have almost 500 clients that are RIA and I’ve got one operations person that’s responsible for putting in inside of Infinity, our custom CRM that we built, they’ve got to in all the tax information so that we’re running at the end of the year Roth conversion estimates.

(20:54):

And so we like to do our Roth conversions in October. I got to have all of the prior year’s tax information in, plus I also need their pay stubs. I need to know, especially if they’re continuing to work, what is their income app right now? And then my team being able to discern between taxable income and non-taxable income about understanding the difference between a marginal and an effective tax rate. This is considerable. When our operations people get a phone call from a client and says, Hey, we’re going to buy this RV and I need to take $40,000 out of my account. What does the client mean? Do they mean 40,000 gross or 40,000 net to them? They mean net to them. They need 40,000 in their account. So my team has to understand how to gross that up and when they gross it up, how much taxes should we be withholding from that taxable account and sending to the IRS?

(21:50):

Because if we withhold zero, my client is going to forget in March how wonderful having that RV was in July, and then they’re going to have a taxable issue that they’re going to be super frustrated and said, why didn’t, didn’t your team tell me about this? And then we have a level of responsibility and with our financial advisors, we’re serving so many households and doing so much to change the financial advisory community, we can’t be everywhere at one time. I need my team to be fierce. I need them to be educated. I need them to be able to not give advice, but ask the right questions. So when they present the information to me, I’ve got everything I need to make a decision.

Steven (22:34):

I really like that point about being able to ask the right questions because this might seem like a simple example to some people listening of talking about marginal versus effective tax rate. But if you have an operations person who has gone through tax training as opposed to they’ve seen their own tax return once or twice in their life, then it’s going to start standing out. So even if they’re not entirely sure what to do with it, they come across a client, the marginal tax rate is 27.5%, they’re going to say, wait a second, that’s weird. I haven’t seen that before. I need to mark this. I need to ask Jamie. And now, instead of asking about every single number that comes through, they can go through and feel confident about the majority of what’s going on, help you identify the exceptions, help narrow down and make those questions more specific and helpful. And they’ve got such a better foundation they’re coming from so that you get to spend your time on only the things you have to do. There’s no end to the number of times that that reminder is relevant of. Sure, it’s faster the first time, but how much time are you going to save over the next year or five or 10 or 20 years if you invest the time and money and resources to train people so that you don’t have to keep being the answer?

Jamie (23:40):

And one of the things that financial advisors do a terrible, terrible job at remembering is that we are not invincible. Something will happen to us at some time in our life, right? Yeah. Either we’ll choose to go on a vacation, God forgive, we get disabled. What if we die? What if we are just in a client meeting and can’t answer a client question and the client feels it’s an emergency right then and there? How qualified are your team members to handle things when you step out, when you step back?

Steven (24:12):

Yeah. One thing that brought to mind, Jamie, I’m not even entirely sure why, but the other thing that knowledge and experience helped with is people’s initial reaction to a situation because it really changes the client experience if you freak out with them or if you can stay calm, and even if you don’t have the answer, it’s like, Hey, you know what? I know we work with people in this situation. I’m going to get with Jamie. We’re going to get solved for you. But to your point, if you’re in a meeting and the client calls, they come in, they’re freaked out because whatever IRS letter they got or something on their tax return, if that’s the first time someone on your team has seen it as well and they’re like, oh, geez, that does look scary. Well now you’ve just escalated the anxiety and escalated the fear and concern. Again, you’re not telling your operations team to give advice. You’re not telling your relationship with managers to give advice, but you’re giving them the tools to create a better experience and outcome for your clients.

Jamie (25:01):

So Steven, we had this happen this last year. So we have a client and her husband unfortunately suffered from some agent orange effects and ended up passing last year, last tax year if you will, 23. And so they had two children and their two adult children were both in their forties, fifties, pretty fit, et cetera. And the husband passed in March and her son went out hunting in September, and we had a terrible, terrible rainy summer last year. So it rained nonstop. I mean, people were building arcs. It was a whole thing. And so the son was out hunting and it was so wet he ended up getting pneumonia. And as they tried to get him out, and in Alaska we have such a limited road system. So when you’re out, you are out. You’re two or three days away from medical care. And so he was trying to get back on his four-wheeler pneumonia got worse and worse and worse by the time he got to the hospital, he ended up dying within seven days.

(25:58):

So that is the loss of a husband and the unexpected loss of a child in one possible year, right? So when this happened, she was a widow, but then also she was the representative for the son’s estate. So she had all of that information as well. A lot of people, if you don’t deal with widows or widowers or people that have lost things, you still have a tax return to file for that decedent, and you still have to gather all of their tax information and put it into the return. And so as she was getting ready to do this, she started getting nasty grams from the IRS and saying, Hey, we’re auditing your file. We’re going back. And so on. Her husband and her son, they were like, in the prior tax year, you owe $20,000, you owe $18,000, you owe this. And she’s like, oh my gosh, I have no… think about your adult children.

(26:50):

You don’t know their taxable situation. You might have an idea, but you don’t know all the specifics. And so she started getting these letters and was really, really concerned. Well, in her mind, and in most clients’ mind, if you have an IRS issue and the IRS sends you a letter, the very next step if you don’t answer that letter in the two days time that they give you is that IRS agents will paratroop like they will just clean off of your roof. They will crash through your windows and they will seize all your assets and start auctioning ’em off in front of your neighbors. But you and I both go, that is not reality. If the IRS sends you a letter, no human being has seen your information just yet, this is just a computer kicking out regurgitated stuff. And the frustrating part is that it can take a few months to get a half. So in her case for the 2022 tax year, we ended up just this last week, she sent me a big email, bright all caps, called the office and said, guess what? Good news the IRS zeroed everything out. They just didn’t have all the information that she had to get to them. And it ended up going from a hundred thousand dollars tax payment to zero because they just didn’t have everything together, especially because he died in September. So he was on an extension.

(28:09):

So that was really concerning. But luckily in that situation, while the client did talk to myself several times, they talked to my team a hell of a lot more, and the team being able to be like, Hey, you know Sue, it’s okay. We’re going to sort through all this and make sure everything’s taken care of. By the way, I don’t know if you know, but if the IRS sends you one of the CP letters, no human being has actually looked at your information just yet. So we’re going to get them everything so that a real live person can look at it and go through this. And just that nugget my team being able just to say that to the client, took this from a 911, they’re coming crashing through my house to, okay, great. I have somebody on my team helping me get this done. 

Steven (28:52):

I love the real tax savings. I love being able to do tax planning where we can show people and quantify that, Hey, we helped you reduce the amount of your hard-earned money. The IRS kept this experience piece of it is very real. You can make the difference on whether someone is terrified they’re going to jail or knows they’ve got someone in their corner to help ’em through this.

Jamie (29:10):

You and I laughed one time because somebody said there are no tax emergencies. Yes, they are. The second your client feels they have an IRS emergency, you have an emergency. That’s how you define a 911 issue. Does the client feel it’s a 911 issue? Yep.

Steven (29:24):

And you and I both have communication policies for our teams that specify that up. Okay, what is a 911 emergency? And one category of that is anything the client thinks is a 911 emergency.

Jamie (29:33):

Amen. So much value there.

Steven (29:35):

Well, Jamie, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your insight and expertise on this. I’m really excited to hear how it goes for your team members as far as getting their EA all done. We mentioned a couple of things in the course of this conversation that are great action items. If you’re not already signed up for the Summit, there are still some spots, or at least when this airs, there should be. Make sure you go out quickly. It is rapidly filling up, which we’re very excited about. If you’re looking for an entry point before you have someone dive into the EA exam, we do have a great course on reviewing tax returns that you can go out to retirementtaxservices.com and have you yourself or have your team members go through this, the 37-point masterclass on reviewing tax returns. Jamie, as you think about what we’ve talked about today, any other action items you would recommend for advisors listening to this?

Jamie (30:19):

I appreciate your modesty. I think you’re grossly underselling both the Tax Summit and the 37-point checklist. We had an advisor, we said go do the 37-point checklist. And so he kind of casually did some of the points, not all 37 of them, and we stopped them. We said, no, pull out that 37-point checklist and want you go line by line on your own personal tax return. And he was like, well, some of this is silly. Check the client’s name, check the client’s address. And we said, okay, check the client’s address because you’re the client. And he stopped and he said, well, that’s my old address. And he had moved states, he was in an income state and he moved to a non-income tax state and he missed it, right? And he missed the fact that the IRS has no idea you moved.

(31:06):

They don’t know until you file your tax return. It’s really important. One of our hard rules at Shilanski, and it should be yours too, for all your audience out there, don’t you ever give clients the value add or something that you’ve done for them that you haven’t done for yourself. So all of our team members go through that 37 point to understand the value of it, and you have self-discovery like that. And now the client has, now the advisor has a great story to tell the client, Hey, I’m going to go through the 37-point checklist. So if we miss the small stuff, we can miss the big stuff. And then the Summit is phenomenal. I went last year and I still referenced my notebook where I had on my ledger and was taking down all of these different notes because you are so strategic in bringing in tax information. But I’m not a tax aficionado. I’m not a tax nerd. I leave that to my baby brother. But you brought in so many nuggets that I could circle, put the little light bulb next to and bring home to a client. And that was worth the price of admission alone, yet alone getting to network with other advisors who were in similar practices that were like, Hey, I’m not huge on taxes. We don’t do this internally, but I’ve got this question or I’m doing this with a client. And it was sensational, phenomenal.

Steven (32:17):

Well, Jamie, I certainly appreciate that ringing endorsement, and we’re hearing that from so many of our attendees that I just can’t wait to be back there again in September. So retirementtaxservices.com get signed up for the summit and for everyone listening, thanks for being here. And until next time, good luck out there. And remember to tip your server, not the IRS!