Steven Jarvis, CPA (00:55)
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the next episode of the Retirement Tax Services Podcast Financial Professionals Edition. I’m your host, Steven Jarvis, CPA. And this week on the show, we’re going to take a little bit different approach. My guest this week is so excited to have him on the show from halfway around the world, probably doesn’t care too much about the US tax code, but has a lot of great insight on some things that we all could benefit from. Joining me this week is Lloyd Ross, the author of Become Time Rich. Lloyd, welcome to the show.

Lloyd Ross (01:23)
Steven, thanks for having me on. I am excited. I do get excited about tax code anywhere in the world because I like to, you know, minimise my tax legally. So I’m excited to be here and ready to give some value. So yeah, I’m excited.

Steven Jarvis, CPA (01:34)
Well, I appreciate you being here. I love the emphasis on minimizing taxes wherever a person might be. But part of the reason I’m so excited to have this conversation, you’ve spent a lot of time in this world of finance and finance education of helping people. One of the things that stood out to me from the conversation we had before and learning about what you do is that there’s definitely this huge emphasis on consistency, on discipline. Your book that’s about to, as this episode releases, like literally the book’s about to come out, it’s available on Amazon. It’s all about the kind of this emphasis on time, not just money and dollars. And when I talk to financial advisors about getting more involved in tax planning, one of the pushbacks I get is where am I going to find the time to do this well? So great topic here of here’s how we find more time in our 24 hour day.

Lloyd Ross (02:18)
Yes, well, it’s very interesting because the paradigm that creates that mindset, I don’t have enough time. I had it as well. And I did. And a friend of mine, were training, doing some boxing training together and we’re running along. And at the time I had an online business and a share portfolio that allowed me to be completely financially independent. And I wasn’t busy. Like I built this four hour work week that I read about in Tim Ferriss’ book many years before.

(02:42)
But running along and he said, Lloyd, how come you don’t have more businesses? He said, you’ve got this great skillset, why don’t you? And I said, well, I don’t want to be more busy. And he said to me, when did you decide that having another business was going to make you busier? And it was such a great question. said, actually, I don’t know where that mindset comes from. He said, the reason I say that is because Tony Robbins has 70 businesses. And you look at even Warren Buffett, he has, you know, obviously public equities portfolio, but private businesses too, there’s probably between 50 to 100 private businesses that Warren owns. And he’s not busy. So it just, it made me reflect and think, hmm, maybe I can do more while also doing less, achieve more by doing less. And so that’s where the paradigm comes from of like, actually, you can do these things, you can develop your business further, you just don’t have to be the one that does it. And that’s the difference.

Steven Jarvis, CPA (03:36)
Yeah, there’s definitely a huge piece in that of who do you surround yourself with, both literal human beings that you surround yourself with, the systems that you use. But I think part of what that comes back to is just the intentionality. I mean, it’s an age-old saying, but we all have the same 24 hours in the day. And it is amazing what some people are able to do with that 24 hours and then how some of us feel stuck. And I think we go through different versions of feeling stuck because I think I’ve improved hugely from where I was five years ago. But I’m excited to see where I am five years now to look back and say, man, I was so stuck then.

Lloyd Ross (04:06)
Yeah, well, you don’t know what you don’t know. And one of the things that I didn’t know about back then is, I mean, I’ve known about the compound effect or compound interest for many years since I was a kid, effectively. And, you know, if you’re in the finance game, you understand the compound interest formula and you know how powerful it can become. In fact, Einstein said it was the eighth wonder of the world. But one thing I did learn that was probably the ninth wonder of the world that a lot of people don’t deploy or don’t understand or recognize to scale their time and productivity is leverage, not financial leverage, but the leverage of like, how do I leverage other people? How do I leverage systems? And how do I leverage my capital to create things that don’t require a lot of my time? And that’s really the juice of where people need to move to do more or achieve more by doing less.

Steven Jarvis, CPA (04:53)
Yeah, let’s talk more about that for people who are in the finance world, the idea of leveraging money, that’s not leveraging capital, that’s not new, but leveraging time, that might be a new concept to a lot of people. And again, for my audience in particular, the reason I think this conversation is so important is because time is the great equalizer. And so if you sit there saying, well, I can’t add tax playing to my practice, I can’t do more tax money, I can’t do a state plan, whatever it is you think you can’t do for your clients because of time constraints. That’s a mindset that you need to find a way to challenge because there are people already doing it at levels that will blow your mind and for you to get there, you’ve got to find different ways to approach this. So talk to us more about how a person can leverage their time.

Lloyd Ross (05:32)
Well, how I would approach it would be number one, I wouldn’t be the one that does it. And I think people get stuck on that. Like, I can’t add this to my practice because I don’t have the time to do the tax planning component. Or it’s just because they’re thinking, how do I do it? And that’s the wrong question. It’s not how do I, it’s who does this for me? And so one of the things I would look for straight away, and I talk about it in the book is the most potent way to achieve more by doing less leveraging people is of course partnerships. So what I would be doing is I would be seeking out someone who already specialises in that and I’d be saying, listen, I have all these incredible clients, I wanna add this to my practice, I want you to do all the work and I’m prepared to do that for this particular fee or let’s do a split comm structure or a split fee structure on all the work and I’d bring in a partner and I have done that for all my business, I have four businesses and they’re all partnerships because I don’t wanna do everything but I wanna do pieces of it and that’s how I would scale into this new field for sure.

Steven Jarvis, CPA (06:30)
Well, I feel like I got to pull back the curtain here a little bit because it’s amazing kind of the themes that you connect with successful people around literally around the world because you and I had one conversation before we did this. We didn’t talk in depth about how my business works. And for advisors listening, there’s probably that there’s at least some of them thinking, this is just a plant. Steven has bought this guy off because my whole business model is I partner with financial advisors who see the value in tax planning, but don’t wanna have to do all of the work themselves. They wanna understand a piece of it better, because I would imagine this is true for you too. You can’t delegate 100 % of it, right? Then you just wouldn’t be involved. There’s gotta be some portion you are an expert in or that you understand well enough to be part of that facilitation, that part of that partnership, and then you work with other people. So that’s literally how I built my entire business and now I’m doing it by extension, I’m doing that for other services, because when people come to me and say,

(07:21)
Well, Steven, you did great on the taxes, but now I have these other questions. I don’t try to become an expert in those things myself. I’ve got people who, literally a week from now, we’re doing an M&A university all about how to increase enterprise value and work towards an eventual sale of your financial planning practice. I’m not the expert on M&A, but I’ve got a whole list of people who are going to be there with me. And so this idea of partnering is so valuable.

Lloyd Ross (07:41)
It would be the most important aspect of how to scale businesses. Like, you just cannot do it alone, it’s a team sport. But I think it’s one, I mean, if I was in the field over there, of course you would be someone I would partner with to do those things. I mean, look at my business now, we just pulled on, we wanna scale our content. And so what am I supposed to do? Sit here with my own equipment, do my own ideation? No, I partner with one of the best content creation teams. I literally walk in there, they do their specialty. Of course I’m involved. I wanna approve the content, I wanna ideate with them, I wanna collaborate with them. But they bring things and they do things. Like right now while we’re doing this show, they’re beavering away, nailing eight more episodes on YouTube. There’s things happening in the background of all my businesses right now. And so yes, you have to partner with people to build your business. It’s just the only way to do it.

Steven Jarvis, CPA (08:29)
As you’re talking about that, I’m just going down the list of the people we partner with because again, like I wanna be the expert on taxes, but we have our good friends over at JPTD partners with Ted Jenkins and the team there that helps us with this M&A stuff. We’ve got our friend over at Foundational Income Associates, Brian Smith, who helps us with this whole area of annuities and life insurance based products. We make sure that the places where I’m not an expert, we have somebody right there on the sidelines who say, okay, tag you in, it’s your turn, make sure we help get this across the finish line.

Lloyd Ross (08:55)
Perfect. I mean, that’s the secret, isn’t it?

Steven Jarvis, CPA (098:58)
So then let’s break this down a little bit more maybe actionable for the average listener because not everybody is to the point where they’ve identified a specific, I need a content creation team. If someone’s a little bit earlier on and they’re almost at a loss for, yeah, I feel busy all the time, I gotta leverage somehow, I delegate something, where the heck do I start?

Lloyd Ross (09:16)
Yeah, look, the first step is to actually say, I’m too busy to do this. And so you’ll have the business bug. And I think you get to a point where you stop wearing it around like a badge of honour. And you do that when it wears you thin and you get overwhelmed and it starts to affect your relationships and your stress levels and your sleep. And if you’re at that level, it’s like, hey, there’s a sign. So the very first step is to do, write out a list of three, there’s three lists you write out. The first list is, things that I can’t do. So just things you know you want to do, but you just literally can’t do it. So if you’re not a tech person, if you’re not, like for me it was content creation, I’m not a video guy. So what are the things in my business that I actually just can’t do? That’s on your first list. The second list is things that I shouldn’t do. And this is probably the list that people really need to spend the time on because things you shouldn’t be doing is like, you shouldn’t be responding to certain emails. You shouldn’t be posting your own content. There’s certain things you’re trying to do, but it’s just they’re low value tasks. So the things that go on the shouldn’t do list are things below your rough hourly rate. So for example, remedial administrative tasks that you can pay someone $8 an hour to do. You shouldn’t be doing those things, okay? And the final list is things I don’t want to do. Because when you are in your zone of genius and building your business, you will build it a lot more effectively and for longer if you enjoy what you do.

(10:36)
So, if you don’t like doing certain things like the tax planning, whatever it is, put it on that list. So there should be three distinct lists. And the most important one to delegate first is that middle one, that I shouldn’t do list because you don’t have to be doing it and the best way to take the first step to alleviate that is to go to Upwork.com. In fact, you go to chatgpt and type in this is using systems leverage, please create a job description for me for a part-time, just part-time, virtual assistant who can do X, Y, and you put a full job description of what you, all that shouldn’t do list goes on there. ChatGpt creates it for you, go to Upwork, post it, you get all these people coming in and then of course you interview them and hire someone part-time. Just to get used to bringing on someone to do those basic tasks because delegation is an art. And so you wanna bring in that person to do the shouldn’t do list first. And that’s how you do it, that’s the first step.

Commercial (11:33)

Steven Jarvis, CPA (12:19)
Yeah, I love that recommendation. I love how actionable that is because and for people listening, I mean, if you’re not in a place to write those lists out right now, put it on your calendar. Give this a place to live. Have some quiet time. Fill out that list because that acceptance piece of acknowledging, there are a lot of things I probably shouldn’t be doing. I love how you took it a step further and said, OK, here’s an easy way to go and solve this because that can feel insurmountable. And then back to this kind of feeling almost like you’re a plant for partners and systems. I’m a huge advocate for virtual assistants, executive assistants. One of our partners, because this is not something that I specialize in, is a group called Belay that we love to work with. And for listeners of our podcast, you can actually text RTS to 55123 to get more information from Belay on how they work with virtual assistants and get some good information on how to effectively delegate. Because it is a skill. Even though I love the framework you’re providing, I think you’d probably also agree that this isn’t, five minutes, you’ve solved all of your problems, you’ll never have to try this again. These are skills you need to work on and improve, but they are going to level your life up so much.

Lloyd Ross (13:20)
Well, you wanna be in a position in your business where you’re doing nothing. The whole idea of business is so the business runs and doesn’t own you, you own it. And the notion of like, I have to be busy in my business is wrong. It’s not the right way to build your business. Well, not the effective way to build it, but what I’ve always tried to do is, how can I replace myself out of this as fast as I can? That’s all. And so what you realize is your income will go up, the more you replace yourself because you can then ideate and work on things, work on your business, not in your business. And so the whole idea is to get rid of that job you’re in in your business as fast as possible by delegating it. Without a doubt, it’s most important skill.

Steven Jarvis, CPA (13:57)
Well, and I love that you’re giving a framework for how to make that happen, because I don’t think it’s a novel idea. Know, people talk about follow your passion, whatever that looks like. But usually it’s it’s missing the framework of how does that actually happen? And I think you hit on it right there that if you can if you can make these lists, especially that I shouldn’t do lists and you can start delegating those, now you’re going to be spending more time on things you’re excited about. And that’s where your creativity is going to come out because, you probably got this far as a business owner because you’re good at problem solving in some way. Maybe it’s a particular type of problem, maybe it’s broad based, but if you have a really long list of things I shouldn’t do, you aren’t spending meaningful time on problems that only you can solve.

Lloyd Ross (14:33)
Yes, correct. That’s 100 % accurate. Yeah, great, statement. think when people are delegating, they often get stuck in their own ego because they think they’re the only ones that can do it. And that, you no one can do this as good as me, right? And that’s not the most effective approach to it. It would be, actually, there are people out there that are way better at this than me, and I need to find them. And every single business problem, if you boil it down, becomes a recruitment problem. So, who is the person that’s gonna do this for me? And every great business owner just has these great people, partners, even employees, who is gonna do this role for me? And you’re really just a, effectively every business becomes like an HR thing. Like, who’s gonna come in and solve this problem, right? And so that’s the approach to take. And when people are delegating, the way to approach it when you first do it is to do, so understand how to do it yourself in some way. You don’t have to be an expert at it, but understand the concept of it. Document, then delegate. So when you’re bringing someone in, have an idea of what it looks like, but document it and then delegate it. Because if you document how you like it done or whatever it might be, when the person’s coming in to do it, you’re not gonna have quality issues, right? And you’re also gonna have a training system. So if that person doesn’t work out, guess what? You don’t need to tell them how to do it again. You’ve got a training system in place like an SOP. They can follow to then bring in anyone you need. And I think that’s the trick to it as well.

Steven Jarvis, CPA (15:55)
Yeah, there’s definitely a few tricks in there. I love that you’re going to actionable steps because I mean, it speaks to your experience that you’ve clearly been through this yourself. This isn’t a theory you made up and you’re letting other people test out. One of the things I’ve learned about myself through some painful experience is that I’m not great at documenting processes. It’s just not a skill set that I have developed. And so one of the things that I work on really endlessly with my team is when they ask me a question, I still, say, hey, what’s the process for that? Knowing that half the time they’re going to say, well, Steven, you haven’t told me what the process is. And I say, OK, great. Let me give you an outline of what I would like the process to be, and then you go write it out for me. And for team members who aren’t entrepreneurial minded or who aren’t yet entrepreneurial minded, they love systems and structures. They love being able to be a part of developing that. And so everybody’s winning. But as the leader, as the business owner, I have to make sure I’m putting the emphasis on that and giving it a place for it to live, because I can’t take the approach of, if they’re not spending every last minute doing whatever production task I gave them, that it’s a waste of time. No, building these systems and processes can be a hugely valuable use of team time.

Lloyd Ross (16:57)
And having someone else do it’s even better. So of course when they come in, you’d want to empower them to be able to develop systems like a trail of breadcrumbs so that if they do move away, there’s a system there on SOP that you can recruit into. So I mean, it just alleviates a lot of problems.

Steven Jarvis, CPA (17:12)
So Lloyd, you talked about kind of some of your own internal dialogue before you kind of went down this path. What are other kind of like internal obstacles that people have or like internal narratives that stop people from embracing this? What obstacles do we need help people overcome?

Lloyd Ross (17:24)
Well…There’s a guy by the name of John Mark Comer and he wrote an incredible book and he used to be a pastor of a really big church in the United States. And this particular church got so big that he became obviously an extremely important person in that community. And of course when that happens to you, you get a level of fame even as a pastor in the church and everyone wants a piece of you. And the notion of Christianity is give, give, give, give, give, like serve, serve, serve, serve, serve. So he was serving and giving and serving and giving. And his whole
know, mission was to build this incredible church, which he done. And he talks about in his book, in the process, he kind of lost his soul, which is not aligned with a good Christian life. And so he sought out mentorship from this fellow by the name of, his name was Dallas Willis, I think. And this particular mentor of his also used to run a church and he called him up one day and said, listen.

(18:16)
I feel like I’m broken here. I’m at my wits’ end. Finished. Like he was so busy that had broken him. I need your help. So he reaches out to his mentor. Just tell me one thing. What’s the most important thing I need to know? And this particular mentor said to him, you must eliminate hurry from your life. And so the book is called The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark Comer. And he said that is when it changed for him. So what I’ve tried to do since reading that book is ruthlessly eliminate hurry from my life. And when I talk about in my book that people would probably resonate with more pragmatically is if you sit there and bounce your leg, I don’t know if you see people like me, whatever you do that, I’ve termed that hurry sickness. And hurry sickness is when we’re hit with a hurry virus.

Lloyd Ross (19:03)
And we’re living in the future and we’ve got too much on our plate and we’re suffering from that level of anxiety that’s in us to do things and that’s when you know you’ve got to start ruthlessly eliminating, eliminating hurry. So what I started to do to get out of that framework, it just made me a more effective business owner, husband, person, is I realized I was brushing my teeth fast. Like, at a real elementary level, that’s what was going on in my life and so, I just had this awakening, like, huh, why am I hurrying? And I started to physically just be aware of it, and then I started to slow down. So what I try to do to eliminate hurry is this. When I brush my teeth, I do it slowly now. It might seem ridiculous, but it allows me to do that in other areas too, especially around business and so forth. When I walk to the gym, I don’t pace, I walk. I walk slowly, I don’t look at my phone. And people like to meditate and do these morning rituals. I’m not that guy. I like to get in and work and go for it. But from when I go to the gym, I actually voluntarily walk five to 10 minutes to my gym, do the workout, come home. So for 90 minutes of the day, I don’t look at my phone, I don’t look at notifications or anything like that, and I will slow down. And if you do that a couple of times a day, you start to actually become more creative.

(20:15)
And you start to actually want to work on more effective ideas. And you start to move away from busyness and towards what I would say wealth is not being busy, not being in a hurry and making more money and serving more people and just being a better person. So it lives on the opposite side of that. So I think that’s something that I’ve really learned to do in my life that’s had a huge effect on how I approach things.

Steven Jarvis, CPA (20:39)
Definitely appreciate you sharing that. I was excited to have you on. This is getting more philosophical than I expected, but I love it because it’s so important. And I think, mean, to that point of kind of just the busyness and the hurry, a lot of times we don’t take, we don’t give ourselves a place to even have these conversations. One of the things that I’ve done that you get some pretty funny looks from people when I tell them is that, geez, probably for a year, year and a half now, my phone is in black and white.

(21:01)
And it started as somebody, I’m sure they posted on social media or something. It’s like, hey, everybody should try this for a day, because you’ll be more hyper aware of how often you poke at your phone, which is exactly what happened. I changed my phone to black and white, and I would find myself pulling my phone out anytime there was a down moment, like so much of the world anymore. Anytime there’s a moment, immediately the phone was in front of my face. And if you had asked me before I did that, I would have told you, no, I don’t look at my phone that much, like that’s silly. And then I changed it to black and white, and it’s immediately super apparent.

Steven Jarvis, CPA (22:28)
I’m just I’m just constantly looking for a distraction because I’ve I’ve made my life so busy that I have a hard time conceptualizing how much I possibly have to get done and so instead of embracing what I need to do instead of leaning into creativity I’m looking for it’s their avoidance behaviors and so many of us are guilty of that’s why we we wake up scrolling we go to bed scrolling we look for all these things to distract ourselves throughout the day because that’s easier than looking at our to-do list for the next 70 years into the future. But that doesn’t become an issue of we need better distractions. We need a better plan. We need a better framework. We need a way to leverage our time.

Lloyd Ross (22:03)
Yes. Absolutely. It’s so interesting you say that because I moved all of my social media app. Obviously, for anyone who’s listening to this or watching this, it’s without a doubt, no notifications. Like you cannot have notifications. That is zero, right? Zero. Not even a, yeah, if, buts or maybes. And then I moved all my social media apps to the end of my phone. So I have to scroll. So these obstacles you’re talking about, I love the color shift to black and white.

Lloyd Ross (22:27)
It’s making things irritating, it’s making them annoying, it’s creating obstacles in your life so you don’t wanna do those things. So it’s setting personal traps so you don’t trigger these time thief things in your life, which is obviously looking at your phone and getting stuck in the scroll hole is like the worst time suck ever. And so I agree with that and also going back to the list thing is, and this is so underused. Now of course there are a lot of business owners listening to this so I’m sure this doesn’t relate to them specifically but, a lot of people I know don’t use their diary effectively. So they don’t use their online calendar effectively. They’re not scheduling in deep work. They’re not scheduling in rest. They’re not scheduling in procrastination. They’re not really utilizing it to the best of their ability. I put in there when my wife needs to get her lashes done, I’ll put in there, lashes done 3.30 because I want to know when she comes home, I can give her a compliment. Sometimes it’s the only way I can see. So I really use my diary to serve me, not, for me this sort of it. And then the to-do list, was a guy, you’ve probably heard of him, like the Ivy Lee method. Ivy Lee was a guy that helped Charles Schwab in Bethlehem Steel many, many decades ago to improve his productivity. And what he did was he went in there, he was a consultant, and he said, look, I’ll improve your business, big business, Bethlehem Steel, and you can pay me whatever you think it’s worth. And so he went in there and spoke to the staff, and all of sudden their productivity shot up.

(23:47)
And Charles Schwab said to him, what did you do? He said, well, all I did was I suggested that they just write down six things to do for the day. No more, no less, it’s six things. He said, is that it? He said, yeah. And he said, when they did the six things, if they didn’t complete them, the next things down the bottom would go to the top of the list the next day. And he said, well, that’s incredible. Here’s $400,000. So he paid him, which is a lot of money back then for that one consult. So I use the Ivy Lee method in my daily life, but how I do it is, I don’t carry around a physical diary or a to-do list because I don’t take it everywhere with me, but I do take this everywhere with me. So I have the notes section in my phone that’s called my dominate list and I pin it to the top of my notes. And my dominate list is just six things that I want to get done for the day and it allows me, it alleviates the overwhelm because I know that if I do those six things over the course of the next 20 and 30 years like what you said, our to-do, I know it’s gonna be powerful. So I don’t.

Lloyd Ross (24:43)
I don’t think guilty at the end of the day not having achieved anything and also it gives me clarity. So if I do pick up my phone, it’s two things each day. What’s on my diary to do, like what’s on my calendar and what’s on my to do list on my dominate list. That’s it. Like that’s how I roll every day. I, it alleviates a lot of stress and overwhelming anxiety.

Steven Jarvis, CPA (26:02)
I love that you call it your dominate list. With my business partners, we always talk about what are we gonna conquer next? That’s our joke. One of my business partners in particular, that’s her sign off to everything is worlds to conquer. Yeah, we’ll have to find a time to meet in person, Lloyd. Think we approach, we think about things very, very similarly. But before we wrap this up, I do wanna just reinforce one more time. I’m 100 % with you on the no notifications.

Steven Jarvis, CPA (25:23)
It’s become like a personal irritant for me if people have notifications that go off. I run my team virtually, but if I’m with my team in person and someone has a computer notification that goes off, I will stop everything. I’m not mean to them or aggressive, but okay, show me your settings. We’re gonna change that right now, because it’s such a huge waste of your time and a distraction. But yeah, I love the dominate list of making sure you’re using your calendar effectively. Before we wrap up here, Lloyd, how can people learn more about you, find out what you’re doing, follow along?

Lloyd Ross (27:12.532)
Yeah, well, you can connect with me on social media. In fact, if you Google Lloyd James Ross, you’ll find a lot of stuff there. But on Instagram, I’m pretty active. And you can jump in there and find lots of free resources. I do content every day. So engage in that. I’m pretty active on there myself. So it’s not just my team. I’m in there. So say hello. And yeah, the big one I’m working on is the new book launch, which is going to be super fun. I know you’re a Homozi fan, right? Like you’re Alex Homozi. You’re going to see him? All right. You’re going to get.

Steven Jarvis, CPA (26:18)
Yeah, I’ll be working with the week after this episode airs, I’ll be working with his team.

Lloyd Ross (27:25)
Right, great, fantastic. So you’ll perhaps have watched his book launch last year and if anyone hasn’t it’s kind of cool and I remember saying to my wife when I watched it, he’s so good it makes me want to quit. And so, here’s how we laugh. But I actually decided that I wanted to do that and so we’re coming up to our virtual launch in May, just after this episode airs. And I’m gonna do a big virtual free launch so if anyone happens to see it, jump on, you’re gonna get some tremendous value and it’s gonna be fun more than anything. So that’s how you can find me.

Steven Jarvis, CPA (26:50)
Love it. Love it. Well, I appreciate you coming on and sharing your insight and your expertise and what you’ve learned from your own experiences. Because to me, that’s huge. That’s why I do so many of the things that I do. It’s why we love throwing events. It’s why we have our summit this fall, September 30 through October 3 in beautiful Phoenix. You can get on retirementtaxservices.com to learn more about that. To me, I learn the most when I can get in a room with other people working hard, figuring out how to be successful so that I can see what works in practice. So Lloyd, again, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate your time.

Lloyd Ross (27:17)
Thanks for having me on the show, Steven. Really appreciate it. And yeah, I loved it. Awesome.

Steven Jarvis, CPA (27:23)
Absolutely. To everyone listening until next time, good luck out there and remember to tip your server, not the IRS.