Steven (00:52)
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the next episode of the Retirement Tax Services Podcast, Financial Professionals Edition. I’m your host, Steven Jarvis, CPA, and very excited for this week’s episode to go a little bit beyond just technical taxes and talk about a whole lot of other things that are certainly of interest to me and I think will be of interest to all of you. Joining me this week is Matt Halloran from Proud Mouth.

Matt (01:14)
Thanks for having me, brother. I appreciate you letting me guest on your show.

Steven (01:16)
Yeah, absolutely, I’m excited that you’re here. I don’t know that we’ve ever formally met in person. I’ve definitely bumped into you at conferences before. I mean, you’re well-known in the industry. I think you casually mentioned before we hit record that you’ve done thousands of podcasts. I don’t think that was an exaggeration. I think that was probably rather accurate. So for people who aren’t familiar with who you are and what you do, just give us a little bit of background.

Matt (01:35)
Sure. Well, so I’m the co-founder of a company called Proud Mouth, and we work exclusively in financial services. So that’s for financial advisors, insurance agents, CPAs, and then people who provide services to financial advisors. We help these experts produce a show. So we do audio, we do video. So we do full YouTube videos and YouTube shorts. And then we create social media assets, the whole coaching program and a whole system that we take our clients through to really accelerate their influence and help them stop being the best kept secret in their area. And the numbers are real, right? So as of I think the last thing I got from marketing, we’ve done 8,500 podcast episodes and over 150,000 social media posts in financial services, specifically with no compliance issues. And so we have a hell of a track record here. And just very quickly about me, I started doing radio when I was 13. And so being behind the microphone has been my happy place for a really long time.

Steven (02:30)
Yeah.

Matt (02:30)
And so I met this crazy Canadian guy in 2016, who is now my business partner. We started Proud Mouth in 2017 and then COVID hit and we just like exploded because advisors couldn’t market with client events, referral events or seminars. So they really leaned on us.

Steven (02:46)
Yeah, and before we have anybody tune out because they think, hey, I don’t want to start a podcast. I don’t want to start a YouTube channel. Hang with us here for a minute because there’s going to be a lot of important things, regardless of how you communicate is really what it comes down to. And I’ll also tell you that you might think today, hey, I would never do a podcast, but I’m a CPA. And four years ago, it would have been laughable to me had you suggested that not only would I host one podcast, but I would host two podcasts. I’m over 300 episodes in total and closing in on a half million downloads. And four years ago, I literally would have laughed in your face. So I think there’s gonna be a lot of great takeaways. And like I say so often on this show, Matt, I was excited to have you on and learn from you personally. And I’m just glad that a few thousand people can listen in. So yeah, let’s learn some things about communicating here.

Matt (03:30)
Well, one of the things that I think is really, really important for every business owner to understand is the number one client complaint for people you have existing long-term relationships with is client communication, right? And so I don’t think people really understand that, and this just came out from a company called Ycharts here in financial advising, that they said that 75 % of your clients are one bad piece of communication away from leaving. All right, you need to sit with that, right? You really do. And the funny thing is, the power of any sort of marketing is actually retaining existing clients, which of course, you know, Steven is not measurable at all, because you don’t know what clients are right on the fence and are about to peace out and leave. But great client communication is the forefront of all good marketing. And so I don’t care if your audience starts a podcast, starts a YouTube channel, does videos or whatever but you have to be communicating in your own voice, not the canned crap that a lot of people are putting out.

Steven (04:33)
Well, Matt, I’m gonna go down a tax rabbit hole for just a second, then we’ll come back to the communication piece, because as we record this, we’re kicking off the tax filing season. The tax filing season will probably be wrapped up by the time this airs, but this is my annual reminder of how essential this communication is. I know that study by Ycharts wasn’t specific to tax planning, but it puts a spotlight on just how quickly your relationship can come completely undone if you’re not proactive on how you work with your clients. Money’s emotional taxes even more so and so I have seen client relationships come undone over IRS penalties that are a few hundred dollars because the client felt surprised by it. They felt like they weren’t taking care of they felt like they didn’t have an advocate and so as an advisor whether you’re intentionally doing tax planning or just by the fact that you help people with money. You’re creating tax impacts. You’re going to be held responsible if this stuff goes wrong and you haven’t proactively communicated. And so this stuff touches so many aspects of our professional lives, the services we provide to your point, whether we’re doing a podcast or not.

Matt (05:38)
Well, I wanna step into your world real quick because we’ve done shows for CPAs in our tenure here at Proud Mouth and…you are one of the most trusted relationship professional relationships, period. And so they want to hear from you. It doesn’t matter if it’s, you know, and I, and I talk about this all the time, grabbing your phone and saying, Hey, I just got done with a client meeting. Uh, and here are three things that they said that I think you should know. Bam. Send, dude, honestly, I, that’s the best content that you can create because it’s real. It’s conversational and your clients. The people that you do filings for, you provide tax consultation for, they love you. They need you and they wanna hear from you and you have to lean into that. Again, how you lean into that is entirely up to your own personality, but damn you gotta lean into it.

Steven (06:27)
And again, even if you don’t see, even if you haven’t yet come around to, content marketing can be a fantastic thing, which I’ll argue with you on that all day if you don’t believe it, I like that example there of just, hey, what’s coming out of your client meetings? Because if you leave a client meeting and say, hey, these three things really stood out to this client, they thanked me for those things, they were so, they clearly, I could see their eyes light up, that probably means that every other one of your clients needs to hear that as well. And so it’s not just you walk out of the meeting and say, hey, here’s my next LinkedIn post or my next podcast episode, that’s great, but you also need to make sure you have a way to communicate that to every other client that you’re already serving to keep that high retention and to your point about, what’s most comfortable for you? That might be a newsletter, that might be a video you send out, I have an advisor who loves Bomb Bomb videos, that might be on a podcast, that might just be an agenda item in your client meeting that you cover live in person, but if you have those three things stand out in one client meeting, you better believe that every other client wants to hear that.

Matt (07:19)
I brought that up, Steven, because one of the objections that we hear often is, don’t know what I’m going to talk about. And especially because, you know, I know this is going to be coming out after tax season is pretty much over, but you are dealing with things. You’re in the trenches every single solitary day talking to business owners, talking to families, talking to, you know, people who are trying to look ways to pay less in taxes. Goodness gracious. Everybody wants to hear that stuff, dude. And again, if you’re a keyboard warrior and you love to type and write a blog or maybe that, you know, holding up your phone and doing a quick video. Because by the way, so I’ll give you a quick example. I was just at a conference last week in D.C. and somebody said something on stage that was just ridiculous. And I took issue with it. And so I shot a video. It was a terribly shot video and it did not have my selfie stick or, you know, a stand. I was literally holding the camera. I too close to my whatever. Right. It got 3000 impressions on LinkedIn, right? Because it was raw and it was in the moment, right? And that’s the sort of stuff I think that we think that we have to be so polished, so ready to go when we’re creating any sort of client communication, including content. And really what is the best is just you being you. And you have to give yourself that permission. We call it unapologetically being yourself because when you do that, you have zero competition. And that’s a really important thing when it comes to client communication.

Steven (08:42)
Well, then I just want to comment on timing really quick, because I’m totally with you that the authenticity of what you’ve really experienced with other clients is super important. And even as this comes out after the tax filing deadline, just a reminder that February to April is actually some of the worst time to be trying to get in front of your clients about proactive tax planning, because they need to deal with last year’s tax return. It’s a great time for reminding them the things you did before. But coming out of this tax filing season, that’s basically all my content for the rest of the year, but now we need to build that message throughout the rest of the year so we’re getting the stuff done and we’re executing, delivering value, all of those things so we’re ready for the next tax filing season.

Matt (09:19)
Yeah, amen, brother.

Steven (09:20)
So Matt, you’ve done this literally thousands of times. As you look at specifically financial advisors, as we talk about this topic of communication, I mean, you’ve mentioned some objections already you come across. What are some things that you see go wrong that really just need a little bit of insight and a little bit of course correction? Not, we’re terribly wrong, let’s burn it down and start over. But what are those little course corrections that you see have a lot of power?

Matt (09:41)
Yeah, it’s all about mindset, brother. I mean, this is the key. Any sort of content marketing game is a long game. So many advisors are, you they’re so used to buying leads, doing workshops, and you know, they spend $15,000, they get 30 buying units into a room, know, 10 of them set an appointment, they close three, right? We know those numbers, right? I’ve been in this game since 2006. I know how all of that works. That’s sales, right? That is not what we do. What we do is we help you build a long-term brand strategy to communicate your thought leadership to your ideal clients and prospects and centers of influence. And it takes a long time. So part of what we really try to do is level set expectations on the front end of anything, whether you’re working with us or whether you’re working with somebody else, it’s 18 months, bro. Mean, look, look at you. You’re a perfect example of that. If you go back, Steven, and look at when you started popping, it was 12 to 18 months. Mean, statistically, my business partner is all about the data. I’m about the emotion, he’s all about the data, if you haven’t noticed that. But we know that that’s the switch. And so, our most successful advisors who are, by the way, bringing in 10 million-ish in new assets every year directly from their content marketing, they’ve been doing it for 24, 36 months.

(10:59)
They’re doing the reps, they’re getting better. They know that here’s the other thing, you’re gonna suck when you start, all right? So we did 500 episodes of the Top Advisor Marketing Podcast. We just closed the door on that. We’re actually launching a new podcast called Rise Above the Noise. It’s gonna be happening here actually probably when this show goes live. dude, when Kirk and I first started, we were horrible. And I have a background in radio, right? You know, we just didn’t really know what we were doing. Now we are experts, right? I know exactly how to prep a guest. I know how to set clear expectations. I know how to get to the points that I want to get to, you know, after doing 500 of just our show. And then I’ve probably done another thousand podcasts with our clients as the host of the show. And so those are two really big things. One, it’s mindset, it’s long term. And two, the more you suck when you start, your audience is going to love watching you get better. In fact, it makes you so endearing. And I think it’s important. And talk about your journey with that, dude.

Commercial (12:05)
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Steven (12:35)
Yeah, that’s a really interesting point. Hadn’t really, like, I can definitely resonate with sucking at the beginning. I would imagine this is the case for a lot of people, but the first episode of my show I ever recorded never aired because I recorded it. I thankfully had some close friends who were willing to give me some feedback. We listened to like 60 seconds of it and they stopped it. And with genuine like trying to help me, they said, well, I don’t hate listening to your voice. But, and then we started talking about it. It’s like, okay, we’re 60 seconds into the very first episode ever of this thing. It’s like, all you’re doing is talking about yourself. Like not that you’re a bad guy, Steven, but like you gotta give people something else. And so it’s those tweaks. I mean, other things I had to learn from, I don’t like doing episodes by myself. Early on, I would do a combination of guest episodes and solo episodes. And I just, I hated talking into the void, in part because I sucked at it, which that gets better over time. When this airs, I’ll have just done a webinar on Kitces.com where I record, they have you record the webinars ahead of time because they’re smart people and they wanna make sure everything goes well. And I recorded a 55 minute webinar with no breaks that went really, really well. They didn’t do any editing or they might have taken out one or two ums here and there. But that’s four years of practice of doing these. And so out of the gate,

(13:48)
It was almost a little crazy for me to think, yeah, I can talk into a microphone for 20 minutes and say intelligent things. Again whether we’re talking about podcasts or YouTube or just working with your clients, and especially if we get into topics like tax planning that are more technical in nature, the more you practice, the more reps you get in, the better you’re going to be at it. And you have to your point, you have to be comfortable sucking at first. That’s just the reality of it. Because if you can’t, except that you suck, you’re never going to get better.

Matt (14:18)
Well, right, and you’re also never gonna start, right? And that’s that analysis paralysis that we see really often is they’re terrified that they aren’t gonna be great coming out of the gate. And so they just don’t ever, ever get started. You said a couple of things too that I think are unintended consequences of this medium specifically, which is it really fundamentally changes how you view conversation. And so one of the big things that I had an advisor…
I started coaching and consulting in this industry in 2006. And I had a client who was so proud of his three hour client meetings. And I had said to him, said, well, you know, hey, who’s doing the majority of talking? He’s like, well, I’m telling stories. Like, okay. So I want everybody to think about conversation. And honestly, this is the morsel, right? So here’s the gold that I’m hoping you all take away from the show. I want you to think about it like snorkeling, okay?

(15:09)
So here’s what’s happening. You’re a tax professional or a financial advisor and your client is swimming right next to you. So you’re looking down at the world that you all live in taxes or financial planning, right? And every once in a while somebody is going to take a breath and then they’re going to go underwater. So they want a deep dive on a specific issue, a specific strategy or just really find out more about something specifically. Most human beings can stay underwater for about two minutes, really good people can stay for three, right? That’s how long you should be talking before you take a break. And we also know that when you get into that rhythm, you talk for two minutes, they talk for two minutes. All of the sudden, you are now a partner with them. You are the expert, but you’re partnering with them. They feel heard, which in turn means they feel respected and honored. That changes the game.

Steven (16:03)
I really like that analogy of snorkeling because it just gives us something visual to reference back to. And I don’t know what your experience has been. I know you cover a lot of different topics, but on this at times very technical topic of tax, the pushback I’ll get is, but Steven, these are complicated things like I need to give my dissertation before they’ll possibly understand it. And you’re shaking your head and I completely agree with you. No, you can still have this back and forth if you practice and get better. If you understand that hey, I can’t talk for 10 minutes straight, I need to talk for two or three minutes and I need to ask a question and engage them and let them talk and it needs to be this back and forth. I’m gonna guide the conversation and keep it moving in the direction I want it to, but if the client doesn’t join in on the conversation, the execution and follow through is going to be crap.

Matt (16:49)
It’s like the peanuts, hear wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. mean, really, right? So I’m gonna take massive issue with the fact that your fellows, right? And by the way, this is advisors too who feel, well, I have to really, you know, really explain, no, you don’t, right? Because that’s actually what they’re paying you for. So many of us feel like we have to just vomit all of our technical expertise. And a lot of it is because of we don’t have a lot of self-worth or whatever, there’s lots of psychological issues with that, insecurities or whatever. No, if you have a really, really complex thing that you need to go ahead and communicate to them, you need to do it in three minutes. If you can’t do it in three minutes, you’re not as good as you think you are, or you’re just hearing yourself talk, which by the way, is a really egotistical thing to do and your clients don’t like it. And here’s my favorite thing. So I’ve written three books now.

(17:42)
My master’s degree is actually, I was a therapist and I my master’s degree as a life coach. I’ve taught listening and learning for many, many years, especially professional communication is my specialty, right? I recently wrote a book called Shut the F Up and Listen. And the whole overall idea here is very, very simple. They’re gonna remember 25 % of what you say anyway. And so many of you are just filling so much noise and so much stuff that is not valuable. You might think it’s interesting. They don’t think it’s interesting. And so it’s really, really important for you to do that self analysis. But the reason I use snorkeling specifically is because exactly, right? It’s a wonderful visual representation of how communication is supposed to go. And in fact, if you go back and listen to 500 episodes of the Top Advisor Marketing podcast, you’re gonna see that I don’t talk more than three minutes ever. In fact, I used to time myself. I actually have a yellow or a red buttoned egg timer that I would start and when I’d start seeing it go down, I’d stop talking because I know that is wonderfully interesting and muppety and entertaining as I am. You’re not gonna remember what I’m saying.

Steven (18:53)
And I mean, you keep referencing these 500 episodes you’ve done, which I appreciate you highlighting how much practice goes into becoming an expert at things, which shouldn’t be, shouldn’t be an obstacle to starting. And if anything, it should be encouragement to get started so that you can start getting 500 episodes, 10,000 hours, whatever you want to call it. That is a consistent theme across platforms, across industries, across topics. It doesn’t matter. The people who are best at this are the people who get the practice. And I love having the little cheat codes for when you start. Cause when I record podcasts, there’s a timer going that I almost never pay attention to anymore because I can do most of it by feel now, but early on I had to be really mindful of that of, I’ve just been going, and some of it’s reading body language and facial expressions and all of that. But yeah, practice is what this really comes down to.

Matt (19:37)
I don’t think people really fully understand that this is a game. In order to win the game, you have to know the rules of the game and then you have to practice the game. A lot of people will show up and they were just like, I talk for a living. I’m gonna be great behind the microphone. And I’ll tell you a funny story. There’s a really good friend of mine. name is Bill Cates. He’s the referral coach. Very, very famous national speakers, hall of fame. Actually, he runs the top advisor podcast, which is brilliant. And everybody should listen to it. It’s one of the best shows out there, hands down. When he called me up and said, okay, man, I like to start podcasting. I was like, okay, you realize this is not speaking. And he’s like, dude, I’ve got this, I’ve got this. And I was like, okay. And so he submitted his first couple episodes. We’re friends. I’ve known him for a long time, since like 2012, right?

And so he sent it to me and I was like, dude, we can’t publish these. And he’s like, well, what are you talking about? I was like, well, because this is not a memorized, rehearsed speech, this is a conversation and you’re saying, so many times it’s distracting to me as a listener. So, he, is brilliant. He’s like, okay, I am a student, I need to learn. And he just dove in and dude, his podcast now is, it’s exceptional. But you have to want to be good at this. And I’m kind of not saying I’m famous for this, but I say this often, a lot of people half ass their show, you have to whole ass your show. This is a show, right? It’s jazz hands in all lights, camera ready. And we did that, right? We had the countdown game on and you have to be ready for that. You have to plan and prepare, but you are gonna suck at the beginning and just understand you have to start in order to get better. It’s the Japanese principles of Kaizen, right? Gradual continuous improvement, but you have to begin taking that first step toward the mountain that you are.

Steven (21:28)
And this applies to any form of communication. I just want to keep reinforcing that because even if we just look at client meetings, whether you’re virtual in person, whatever, if you’re a financial advisor, you are meeting with clients or I’m fascinated by your service model, but that’s a different conversation. And there are absolutely advisors, probably a shocking percentage of them who just as well, I’m going to talk into people. So I’m just going to show up and do my thing. And they don’t provide that. I’ve sat through a lot of advisor meetings with clients and you can tell the advisors who really do this stuff.

And who really practice it. They practice on their teammates. They practice on their family. They find every opportunity they can to learn from how other people are doing things. And it’s a combination of learning from people who are really successful and figuring out how that applies for you because you should absolutely learn from other people. You can’t just copy and paste because it won’t sound authentic. I’ll give you example specific to me. Obviously, as people listen to the podcast, the theme song comes in, which we are definitely very, very proud of.

But when we do the recording we don’t start with the music because that’s out there my production team puts that in, but when I have record every single time I still do the lead into the show, me talking is live on every recording because for me It’s really helpful to get my mindset right and early on I play around with that because I’d go on other people shows I said I should do it exactly like them and they pre-recorded the intro but then for me it just felt a little bit off because then it was kind of clunky to dive in but if when we start the recording I put my big silly grin on and say, welcome to the retirement tax services podcast. Now I’m now it’s game time and I’m ready to go.

Matt (22:55)
That shows that you are a professional, right? I can’t tell you, I’ve said it 500 times, know, hello and welcome to the Top Advisor Marketing Podcast. I’m your host, Matt Halloran, your friendly neighborhood podcasting and influence expert. Today, I’m going to be talking to you blankety, blankety, blank about this, right? And I mean, that’s game time. It’s like Lebron James throwing the chalk up into the air, right? It’s, know, all of those things. That’s so important. And in fact, let’s break this down to client interaction, client meetings, presentations, proposals or whatever. So many of your listeners, right? They don’t practice that. They’ve done it hundred times. Yeah, dude, Michael Jordan still shot free throws every day, right? He dribbled the ball every day. You’re better than Michael Jordan? When’s the last time that you practiced presenting a tax proposal? Or when’s the last time that you practice a client meeting? When is the last time that you actually practice greeting a client to make sure that they felt?

When is the last time you practiced for a center of influence meeting with another attorney, with an estate planning attorney, with whatever, right? These are things that real professionals, we focus on that all the time. And yes, I’m throwing down the gauntlet, I’m throwing my hat down and saying, you know what? That is what it means to be a real professional. And the ones who are accelerating or excelling in your industry and all industries are the ones who put that work and put that time in practice every day.

Steven (24:20)
Matt, I’m certainly with you 100 % on that. And I also want to highlight that even though people like you and I tried to spread this message, I mean, this is a constant message from you, there is still a huge opportunity for the people willing to do the hard work because no matter how much you talk about it, there’s still some people who are dismissive of it. I’ll give you a real clear example. Last year, I had the opportunity to present at FPA NorCal, one of the most recognized FPA chapter events in the country. So I was really excited to be there and like I do for all of my presentations, even though was on a topic I had presented on before, I went through the whole thing lots of times. When I got on site, I had a printed copy of my slide deck that I was going through. And so I’m in the gym in the hotel on a treadmill going through my slide deck. And then I went outside to get fresh air and I’m sitting on a ledge outside the hotel going through my slide deck. Some people still don’t get this.

(25:08)
This advisor comes past me and basically makes the comment of, pretty sure I saw you in the gym and now I see you here. Like, you’ve been doing this for so long, I just assumed you wouldn’t have to do this anymore. And well, do you want me to do a good job or not?

Matt (25:20)
Wow, how wonderfully short-sighted that is. And for those of you who are only listening to this, you can’t see what’s behind Steven right now. There are like a million medals behind him, right? And so in order for you to successfully do all of those things, and I can recognize few of them, you have to train for it. I speak at a lot of conferences also, and I’ll have people come up to me and they’ll say, my God, dude, like, did you just wing that?

(25:47)
No way, man, you have any idea I practiced it on the airplane the entire way here. I probably did it four or five times in my hotel room before I even got here. And here’s the thing, I have a whole pre-speech sequence that I go through to mentally prepare for myself, make sure that I’m in the right, might get my heart rate up, all of those things. that’s because, for me, it’s because it’s a show, right? And I love to perform, that’s just part of who I am.

(26:11)
And I do that in sales calls, I do that in client meetings, I do that in coaching calls. I mean, it’s just part of who I am as a human being. All of your audience needs to find that flame again, right? And they need to stoke it. And the only way to stoke it is the same way that you prepare for a big race. You gotta train, you gotta practice, you gotta get a coach, you gotta get somebody who’s gonna help you be the best you you can be. And then it looks easy, but you still gotta put in the reps.

Steven (26:38)
Yeah, you have to put in the reps. That discipline is the part that separates the amateurs from the professionals. And coaching and help, learning from peers is something I love doing. But at end of the day, you can have the best coach in the world. If you’re not putting in the effort, it’s not gonna matter. Matt, I can nerd out about this stuff with you for hours, I’m sure. I wanna make sure that we give people something really tangible that they can walk away and do. For people listening, should absolutely look up Matt and his podcast, his books, all of those kinds of things. One of the things I love about podcasting is that most people listen to six or seven podcasts. So me telling you to go listen to Matt does not mean you drop me off your list. You just add one more. And while you’re at it, you can give me a five-star review and leave a comment. We love growing the show, but Matt, I think that we were just hitting on it, but the most common theme of what you and I are talking about here, the thing that anyone can go out and do tomorrow is work on your system for practicing.

(27:27)
Whether that’s client meetings or you have a podcast or you’re giving a presentation, whatever it is, if you are communicating in some way, you need to practice more if you want to be good at what you’re doing.

Matt (27:37)
Amen, brother. I mean, if everybody who’s listening to this just practices something they’ve done a lot once more, gets feedback from a client, like when’s the last time you did that? I mean, I do that with my coach all the time. Hey, how did I do? Well, you sucked. All right, how can I get better? Right, when you’re asking for that feedback is another level of vulnerability that is another podcast entirely. But I think that’s important. Listen, practice, practice, practice, hang out with your peers. Role play stuff with other CPAs, other advisors, see how they’re doing things and how you can learn to get better. But that’s really, really the key is you gotta practice this stuff. You’re only gonna get better and you’re only gonna have happier clients.

Steven (28:18)
Yeah, 100 % agreed. And just to make sure that no one’s lying to themselves, because we all do this at times, practice in front of a mirror, practice in front of a loom video, watch the recording back. That’s how you know you’re actually practicing and not just saying, oh yeah I practiced. Matt, anywhere else that people should be looking you up or finding more about you?

Matt (28:34)
Yeah, LinkedIn, man. I’m like, Bizonko’s on LinkedIn. I’m there all the time. I respond to all my own DMs. Yeah, I mean, I love for people to find me on LinkedIn specifically. But other than that, I’ll probably be speaking at a conference that you’re going to. I’m doing that a lot. I’m taking on my 10 this year specifically. And so I’m more than happy to spend some time with any of your listeners if they want to talk about this stuff. But yeah, find me on LinkedIn. That’s the best place to go.

Steven (28:57)
Awesome. Well, Matt, certainly appreciate your time here and for everybody listening, if you’re not already signed up for the summit at the end of September, if you want to come see the result of all my practicing this year, definitely come out and check out the summit. We’ll be talking about tax planning and practice management both this year. It’s going to be a great event. You can go to retirementtaxservices.com to check that out. So again, Matt, thank you for being here and to everyone listening until next time. Good luck out there and remember to tip your server, not the IRS.