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We’re not overpaying. No, we’re not overpaying. We’re not overpaying anymore. The tax code’s complicated, boring, and overrated. You don’t want that, you want a pro. One thing that you should know: this is a radio show. It’s not tax advice, don’t take it that way.

Steven Jarvis:   Hello everyone. And welcome to the next episode of the Retirement Tax Services Podcast, financial professionals’ edition. I am your host, Steven Jarvis, CPA. And in this show, I teach financial advisors how to deliver massive value through tax planning.

Really excited to have a guest back on the show with me today as we wrap up the tales from tax season.

Joining me is Libby Greiwe, who works with advisors, sharing her experience from a very successful career as an advisor with a huge emphasis on efficiency. And you might be thinking there’s no way efficiency goes with taxes, but we will get there, I promise. Libby, welcome to the show.

Libby Greiwe:    Awesome. Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Steven Jarvis:   So, Libby, go ahead and share a little bit about your background as far as your experience as an advisor and what you do now with advisors. And then we’ll kind of circle back to some of the more tax-specific things.

Libby Greiwe:    Sure. So, I started my financial planning practice straight out of college when I was 22. And obviously, I had just graduated so I knew everything there was to know about everything.

But I started with a broker dealer and I had a really successful start. I really enjoyed it. I came from kind of a super analytical background, but also had a lot of interpersonal skills.

And it was really a great marriage of a career for me, but it was really after finding out I was pregnant with our first child when I was 26, that I became kind of aware, like I had been working around the clock, like a crazy person. Building my business, like you’re “supposed to do.” And I knew I really, at that point, needed to figure out how to actually run a business.

Like I really, up until that point, I had a Libby, I didn’t have a business. And it was really kind of the start of me stepping into that CEO role and kind of moving from just the advisor, doing the daily grind into how do I build an actual business that I can run as opposed to, kind of it running me.

And it really boiled down to a couple of things. It was building simple systems and processes. So, I could literally cut the amount of time that I was working in half down to ultimately three days a week, 24 hours, so that I could be a really present mom and I could be a really present wife and I could still have a full life outside of the office. And I really didn’t want to give up my take home pay.

I’ll be honest, I like money. I enjoyed making money, I still do. And I didn’t want to give that up because I wanted to work less hours. So, it was building these simple systems and processes. It was building a really simple team.

So, one thing that I think surprises a lot of people is that I worked within a broker dealer structure. We eventually, scaled to seven figures and it was literally just me as a solo advisor and two and a half support people. So, it was a really simple little small, but mighty team.

So, everyone’s out there 10x-ing all the things and building these beautiful diamond practices. And that just wasn’t me. It was really just like hey, I just wanted to do my own thing and have my own autonomy and have my simple little team and not have a lot of extra complexity.

When you’re kind of in that late twenties or early thirties, and you’re starting a family and my husband ran a business and we had a couple side businesses. We had a lot of businesses, like we had 186-page tax return. It was insane.

So, it was really for me about simplicity. So, I cut the amount of hours that I was working down to 24. I literally quadrupled the amount of revenue that I was making per hour. And I really started to most importantly, reduce that overwhelm that I felt in the early years of my business.

So, now, I’ve sold my advisory practice. And I have just kind of after taking a two-year sabbatical, I’ve kind of come back to a business that I started in 2016. Which is where advisors all over the country were coming to me saying, okay, “How did you do that, how did you cut your hours, I’m working like a crazy person, I want to make more money, but I want to work less. I feel like I’m just giving my family my leftovers, how do I fix this thing?”

So, back in 2016, we started just doing like a video series. It was just kind of a fun project for me to help other advisors learn how to create these systems and processes.

It eventually grew into a live workshop that we were doing for advisors from all over the country. They’d fly in and my team would train them on all of our systems and processes, and just give them the thing and let them go customize it for themselves.

So, after taking a couple years off doing my sabbatical, I really felt kind of called to come back to that because I love helping advisors work less, reduce overwhelm, and really love the business that they’ve built.

Steven Jarvis:   Libby, that’s an incredible journey. That’s so exciting to see where you started and where you ended up.

And the thing that stood out to me the most and how you described that, because maybe this isn’t the words you’d choose, but as I’ve come into the industry, because I’m not a financial advisor, at least not originally, this kind of feels like a lifestyle practice is what we would call this in the industry. And that means different things to different people.

But this idea of I can still have the income I want, but I can be more efficient and work less. And the way you described it, at least the way I heard it, was you didn’t say, “Well, how can I serve fewer clients or how can I deliver less service to them?” Your whole goal to get to working less was how do I do this more efficiently?

You weren’t willing to sacrifice anything you were providing to your clients. In fact, somewhere in there, somewhere along the way, you said, “Well, why don’t we go ahead and add more things?”

Because at least from our conversation before we hit record, you weren’t doing tax planning on day one, but eventually, you were doing tax planning for clients inside of this efficiency focus that you had.

And I think for a lot of people, this feels counterintuitive of if I want to deliver more services, how does that possibly fit with working efficiently, with working 24 hours a week, whatever that structure might look like.

So, maybe talk about both those things of how do you in general, make sure that you don’t sacrifice value to the client when you start working less, and then what was that journey to add tax planning into the mix?

Libby Greiwe:    Yeah. So, I was that kid in high school and college who got straight As, but I was also the kid who was like okay, what’s like the least amount of work that I need to do to get the best possible grade. And so, I believe that was kind of just in my nature as like okay, well, how do I do this like the easiest way possible?

And that’s really kind of the maybe not-so-polite version of saying, I like to work really efficiently and maximize my time and my strikes. Like no, I want to do like, what’s the least amount of effort to get the best possible result.

So, you’re exactly right. It wasn’t necessarily about changing the amount of value that we gave our clients — that continued to increase year over year, over year. But it was literally kind of taking that old Tim Ferriss question and going, okay, if this was simple, what would that look like?

And I grew up in what I called the world … so 2004 is when I started, and I grew up with what I called the FBFs (the fat bald and fifties). When I went to my first company event, I was young, I was 22, I was a woman. And I just remember looking around the room and going like I just really don’t fit in here.

And I grew up where the adage was, if you wanted to make more, you had to work more. If you want to grow your business, you have to work harder. And I just knew like that just didn’t jive with me. I just kept thinking, gosh, there has to be a more simple way.

And it was really just asking myself consistently throughout my week, throughout my month … every time I learn something like how can I do this faster, better, smarter, cheaper, easier? And how do I do it in a way that is repeatable and delegatable (and I made that word up), but it sounds nice. But like how could I actually teach somebody else to do this on my behalf?

And same thing with like getting really great grades and wanting to do the least amount of effort, I also wanted to only do the stuff that I really loved, and that was being … I was energized, I was excited, I added the most value and frankly, I was good in front of clients. When I was in front of clients, I was bringing people in and I was closing business.

And so, that teenager college person inside of me going, okay, if I knew if the least amount of … all I did was see clients, then that’s the most amount of value that I could add and I could literally teach everybody or anybody anything else.

And so, it was really just starting to create. And we were talking about this before we hit record, but when I started my financial planning practice — and it’s funny, because I’m only 40. Like I just turned 40 and I sold my business when I was 37.

But when I started, LinkedIn wasn’t a thing. Like there were not like online courses and social media. I used AOL Instant Messenger back when I was in college. That’s how much the game has changed since then.

So, I feel like for advisors now, it’s got to be a thousand times easier to find people like me or people like you that have found this need in the environment and saying, “Hey, I actually did this and I figured out a way to make it simple, faster, easier, better, or smarter, whatever; here, just take it and go.”

But I had to literally just kind of stop and constantly ask myself, how could I do this easier, how could I put less time into this, how could I make it more trainable, how could I make it more scalable?

And it was lots of reading books and listening to, oh my gosh, get this; audio CDs in my car. I had a six CD player in my car, but it was getting as much information as I possibly could from other industries.

Because I would look at my industry and go, gosh, it’s kind of antiquated in a lot of ways because with compliance and just … we were always a little bit behind the ball on everything compared to what other industries were doing. So, it was stepping outside of that industry and really seeing like okay, how are people doing this better, smarter, cheaper, faster or whatever.

So, for me, it was okay, how do I continue to add value without adding time. And I knew having seen lots of mistakes — so, like I built my career basically on what do other financial advisors do wrong? Like what do clients come in and literally say, “Well, I had a financial advisor and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” And I just took all those “blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blahs,” and I just didn’t do that.

Like they’d say things like, “They never called me consistently, we didn’t have any kind of frequency or cadence with our meetings. When we got together, they only told me stuff that I kind of looked up online on my statements.” Clients were giving me, they were literally hand-feeding me the “Here’s what we need.”

And one of those pieces always kind of was tax, and tax advice. And we would have clients come in and say, okay … so, I can remember a very specific experience and I had no clue about taxes when I started. Literally, I was 22, I had never even filed my own tax return, at that point. So, it was a very slow progression for me, but it really started by looking at other advisors’ mistakes.

So, I can remember a client coming in and their advisor had suggested that they, I think, liquidate. It was a non-qualified annuity and they had made all of these trades in their mutual funds to switch over to him, and they got their return and it was like something like a $400 overage that cost them just thousands and thousands of dollars’ worth of credits or what have you.

And I just remember kind of going, oh man, like I don’t know that when I’ve like talked to clients and we’ve liquidated big things or I’ve suggested they move over. Like I know we always talk about like “Oh, here’s what your capital gains would be.”

But I don’t know that I’ve ever actually like figured out what would the impact of that be to their return. So, it was really like just taking other advisors’ mistakes. And that was really what kind of catapulted the, “Oh man, I really need to learn this.”

And then I realized very quickly how few advisors were actually doing it or taking a look at returns and doing anything with them besides just saying like, “Oh, if you put your money in an annuity, you don’t have to pay any taxes until you withdraw it.” Cool, what does that mean exactly?

Steven Jarvis:   Yeah, and we’re definitely seeing more and more advisors list tax planning on their websites. It’s in their social … you meant social media before, which I always never completely convinced whether social media is a good thing or a bad thing because Google has all the tax answers. It really does. What Google lacks is, well, how does this answer apply to this specific client?

Same with social media, you can find anything. You can find every expert and pretending expert and all of those things, it’s getting down to what is applicable to me and what is applicable to my client.

And to me, that’s where there’s so much value when we really get into taxes because unfortunately, those mistakes are abundant. That tax planning for a lot of advisors is what you’re describing of, oh, put it in this annuity, or it’s just the idea of Roth conversions, not even the execution of it.

There’s still so much room for taxes to be a differentiator for advisors. I love that approach that you took though throughout your career of, well, just what am I seeing other people do wrong, what are clients asking about?

It seems so simple when you say it that way, but what better way to learn what your client’s value and to be really confident, you’re delivering massive value to them than just listen to them of where their pain points are. That’s, yeah.

Libby Greiwe:    Well, I always joke that, it’s like this business, it’s really not rocket science, and I always joke that. And I would know because I literally originally went to college for engineering physics to be a rocket scientist. So, I know this is not rocket science. Like this is way easier and really, our clients, are putting it on a silver platter for us. It’s just a matter of executing it.

And I was floored when I came into the industry at how little advisors were doing for people. And I think it was too, getting to a point of realizing that like my B plus work is probably equivalent to most advisors’ A plus, plus work on a really good day with extra credit kind of a thing.

And giving up that idea of having to be perfect, but just really building structure and how can we create a ton of value even if it’s not per … I always had that tendency to wait until things were perfect.

I have to build this and I have to know everything and I have to be like this tax expert. Well, maybe I shouldn’t even look at taxes until I become a CPA in my spare time. And I just kind of had to give up that idea of, I have to know it all before I can start actually doing it. And then that idea of like okay, well, my B plus work. Like what I view as B plus work is actually like way better than what most people are already doing.

So, even if it’s not perfect, even if my knowledge is only at a level two, that’s just at least, I can start doing that. And then I can slowly move up that ladder. And I can see that very clearly over my career, how, by the end, the level of tax planning that we were doing — and I still was not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. But the level of tax planning that we were doing was pretty sophisticated and pretty valuable. And really, our key differentiator of why we were a referral only practice.

Steven Jarvis:   Yeah, and to get to that sophisticated level, it definitely takes time. But I love that you pointed out in there that that’s no excuse not to start. Wherever you’re at with tax planning, you have to start, or you’re never going to get to that level. Really, simple definition of an expert is someone who knows more than the other people in the room.

And so, as long as you’ve committed enough time that you know more on taxes than your clients do, which is a very, very, very low bar, then you can start being an expert for your clients.

This sounds a little bit flippant, but you’re not trying to pull the wall over anybody’s eyes. As advisors get started on tax planning, I really try to focus on you don’t have to have the answer to everything, you’ve got to be committed to finding the answer. And sometimes, finding the answer is just pointing them to the right professional who can help them.

But again, this might seem really simple, but you’ll immediately start differentiating yourself from other advisors just by being willing to have the conversation. By asking for tax returns from your clients so that they know that you are willing to talk about those things.

And making sure that you’ve practiced and are really comfortable saying things like “Well, Mr. and Mrs. Client, I could give you a back of a napkin answer, but I’d rather get the details and make sure I’ve really got a solid answer for you. Would it be all right if I gave you a call next Thursday and we could talk more about this” or whatever that script sounds like. As long as there’s a clear action plan, clients don’t get upset when you don’t have all the answers committed to memory.

I am a CPA and people do have high expectations for my tax knowledge. And I still use that approach on things because I don’t know all the tax answers and I’m perfectly comfortable admitting that because I know I’m committed to making sure I get to the right answer with my clients.

And again, over time, that obviously progresses; my tax knowledge is most likely significantly ahead of most financial advisors just because the amount of time I spend on it. But we all start from ground zero at some point.

Libby Greiwe:    Well, and the beautiful thing is you don’t have to be an expert at everything, you just have to have the right resources like you.

Steven Jarvis:   Yeah. We can put all sorts of shameless plugs in here. But yeah, some of it is a matter of having the right resources, having the right places to go to. Because like I said, you’re not by holding yourself out as a tax expert for your clients, you are not promising that you have memorized every answer to every question and every situation. You’re committing to helping them with a plan of action and helping them find the right answer.

And so, some of the time, that’s going to be, “And here’s the right professional to work with on that.” Because while I focus really heavily on tax planning, I completely realize that tax is just one passenger on the bus and should not be the driver of the bus as we talk about a person’s financial plan.

So, there are all sorts of things that clients come to me on to say, “Hey, I’ve got this question and here’s all the different details.” And I say, “Okay, great. Here are the pieces in there that I can help you address, but oh, by the way, we actually really need to figure out a couple of other things first and then we’ll talk about the tax impact.”

It’s actually a conversation I have quite often of … everybody has their different analogy. I usually go with this; taxes are a passenger, but not the driver. And so, when clients will bring me questions, I’ll say, “Yeah, absolutely we can help you understand the tax impacts.”

Working with a client right now on what state they should live in, in retirement. And they led the conversation with, “We want to make sure it’s the right decision for tax purposes.”

And I say, “Okay, that’s great, but we need to start with, I like to think of it as friends, families, and hobbies. Where are you going to be happy living, and then let’s talk about the tax consequences. Don’t make your decision just because of the taxes.” All that to say-

Libby Greiwe:    I should have called you. Go ahead.

Steven Jarvis:   All that to say that we want to make sure that we have our areas of expertise and that we’re right there at the front willing to refer the other pieces out.

Libby Greiwe:    Yeah. Well, we ended up selling my business way faster than I anticipated. And had I known you then, you probably would’ve told me to move to Puerto Rico and all these amazing things that I did not do. And now, looking back, I’m like man, I should have slowed down and maybe took my sweet time a little bit.

But seriously, and I said this when you were on my podcast, I feel like a dinosaur sometimes like when I started, how much harder it was to start than it is now because of just access to information.

And I said this because I mean it. If I had met you 10 or 15 years ago, I feel like my practice would’ve just exponentially grown faster. We grew pretty fast, but I think had I met someone like you, I would’ve been able to do that 10 times faster because you’ve got just this really great resource for advisors.

I know you kind of stumbled into the niche of helping advisors with tax planning, but there was nothing like that other than CFP courses and big fat ugly textbooks when I was doing this, and it would’ve made such a difference. If it were me 10 years ago, I would’ve run, not walked to a program like you offer. And I know you didn’t even ask me to say that, but I’m being dead serious.

Steven Jarvis:   Well, I certainly appreciate that.

Libby Greiwe:    But you can send me 20 bucks in the mail, it’s fine.

Steven Jarvis:   I definitely appreciate that. We had one of our RTS, premier members recently described it as RTS is for advisors who want to charge like tax experts, but don’t want to become tax experts themselves. And I thought that was a really good way to summarize it.

And it’s an advisor I know really well. He is definitely putting in the legwork on tax planning in his own practice. And then he just outsources the rest to us. Because yeah, whether we’re talking about taxes or other areas of our business, trying to operate more efficiently, trying to get processes in place; whatever it is, finding great resources is going to help us move the needle a lot faster.

I think we were talking about this before we hit record, maybe I’m repeating myself, but one of the things I work with advisors on is, “Hey, listen, the things that I’m sharing, these are not so unique that you would never be able to come up with them on your own.”

There are so many successful advisors out there who are successful with tax planning who’ve never even heard of me. But my experience is that usually, those advisors have spent years getting to that point. And it’s usually painful and it’s a lot of trial and error on their own part. It’ll be good for you for learning from other people’s mistakes. Most people are learning from their own mistakes.

Libby Greiwe:    A lot do that too.

Steven Jarvis:   But it’s this painful process to get to a point painful process to get to the point where you feel really confident. And so, I would love to hear maybe just a little bit of your perspective of what that grind felt like of getting to the point where you said, “Yeah, we do differentiate ourselves on taxes. We’ve got this.”

Libby Greiwe:    Yeah, well, before I felt like we could even say that, I had to feel like okay, we do differentiate ourselves. It kind of started where in the beginning, like any advisor, when I first — I wasn’t really working with a niche, it was pretty basic tax planning. It was kind of the, do we do a Roth 401(k) versus a regular 401(k) and kind of the more simplistic stuff.

As we narrowed who we were working with and kind of eventually fell into, we worked with a lot of sea level executives that had RSUs and options and ownerships, and all of these like complicated things.

And we were realizing, I was watching clients retire and we had some tax planning software that we utilized and it was really great. We could run different scenarios, but ultimately, what we found is that looking at things in a silo now, and not necessarily really considering what were the tax implications long-term for them. And really figuring out, like well, how do I figure that out, how do I start learning that, how do I start looking at that?

So, I think a lot of it was just as I grew up in the business and as I learned one thing, then it was a progression to learning the next thing. And then it was a progression to learning the next thing. And as I narrowed my focus, I didn’t have to know all the things.

So, when we stopped working with young families, I don’t need to know jack about five to nine plans and what states do, yada-yada, and how that looks like when you take the money out, because I didn’t work with that.

So, narrowing my focus also provided me a lot of opportunity to really scale my knowledge in a single small category versus having to be all things to all people and know all of the stuff.

So, it really came to how do we have a depth strategy as opposed to a breadth strategy, but it was a grind. It’s like A, we figured it out the hard way. I learned from other people’s mistakes, but I did make like a ton of my own.

And I can’t tell you how many times, being in the — I had my business for 16 years, I had clients retire and it was like, oh, you’re like in the same bracket now, just the bottom of the 25 versus the top of the 25.

And we were having you shovel money in like a crazy person. And now, it’s just grown over the last 10 years, tax-deferred, and now you’re taking it out and you’re paying the same freaking tax rate on it. Well, shoot, we could have had it accumulating tax free in a Roth 401(k).

And of course, because I was started in 2004, so many things came into … like Roth 401(k)s weren’t really a thing when I started. And new things were always being added and changes were always being made to the tax code that just required us to stay up to date.

And that’s hard, like whenever there’d be a major tax code revision, it was kind of like the, “Oh crap, we have to redo all of our processes and strategies and we have to A, figure this thing out. And then B, we have to come up with like a new plan of attack for it.” And that’s tough. Like that is a real grind.

So, I think it was for me, the grind was the constant learning, the constant evolving, the constant change. Now, I think that’s also the thing that kept me interested in my business, was the constant change and the constant adjustments and having to like stay sharp. I loved that.

But from a processes standpoint, it did make it rather complicated, because I felt like, yes, once we just finally figured something out and we mastered a strategy around it, the good old IRS would pull out the rug from underneath this and go “Guess what, everything’s different.” And you’re like “Ah!”

But that gave us an opportunity to be really forefront with our clients. Like if we could get on that really quick, then we could be the first ones sharing hey, we found a loophole; hey, there’s this strategy; hey, there’s this way for us to … I never want to use the word “manipulate,” but that’s always like the first thing that comes to mind. I always want to say massage your tax strategy, massage your return.

And so, it was just a slow, hard progression because we didn’t have this resource kind of spoon feeding it to us, which would’ve been amazing.

Steven Jarvis:   Yeah, I like to tell people that the complexity in the tax code gives us choices. And so, we are going to make the choices that make it so we pay every dollar we owe and we don’t leave the IRS a tip.

Well, is certainly frustrating how often Congress changes the rules on us. That is also where the stickiness comes from in doing tax planning. Committing to tax planning is going to give you things to talk about with clients every year forever. You are never going to wonder what’s going to come up in your next client meeting or how do I deliver value next year — taxes will solve that endlessly. So, it a great thing to commit to.

Libby Greiwe:    We became a referral-only practice. And I think one of the big things was the tax planning that we did because we’d have these CEOs or COOs come in and we’d like do all of this like amazing tax razzle dazzle. And then it was inevitable that the rest of the C-suite executives in their business would eventually come to us and go, “Hey, you did this thing for so and so.”

So, we eventually kind of became like “mini experts” at their actual corporate structure and their corporate plan and their corporate compensation packages, which made us extremely unique in the Cincinnati market for Procter & Gamble or General Electric or Cintas or some of these really big organizations that were based there.

So, for us, tax planning really catapulted us to that referral-only, “Hey, you got to go see this person because she did blah, blah, blah, blah, blah for me.”

Steven Jarvis:   Yeah, there’s so much power in having that really narrow focus. Libby, we always want to make sure that we take the information that we share on this podcast and turn it into action so that it’s really valuable for our listeners.

So, I’ll let you go first, as you think about the conversation that we’ve been having today, what is an action item that you would recommend to financial advisors listening to this podcast?

Libby Greiwe:    The first one would be just start. Come up with a plan, figure out how you’re going to introduce tax planning and just start and fail forward through it, and find those resources that will help you build your acumen.

And just bearing in mind that if you’re the type of planner that’s even considering tax planning, your B plus work is probably equivalent to most advisors’ A plus, plus. So, you can just start without having to know everything first.

Steven Jarvis:   Yeah, I love that. There’s some other great things in there going beyond just start, but you’re absolutely right, that you can’t worry about being the person who knows everything right now. You’ve got to get started.

And then the thing that was sticking out to me throughout this conversation that I think is a natural next step to that, is you have to commit to learning out of the gate. And as you go through, hopefully, you’re not listening to audio CDs at this point.

There are other resources out there, but whatever works for you, whether it’s podcasts, whether it’s conferences — whatever works for you, this has to be an ongoing commitment to learning. And the more you can narrow down who you serve, the more targeted that learning can be.

Libby Greiwe:    Yeah, definitely.

Steven Jarvis:   Yeah. So, Libby, really appreciate all the insight that you’ve shared here today. If people want to learn more about what you do and how you work with advisors on systems, on working efficiently, how can they follow up with you?

Libby Greiwe:    Yeah, so people listening are obviously podcast listeners. And so, I launched a podcast back in December of last year and it’s really different. It’s geared towards financial advisors, but through the lens of systems and processes. Like the how, not just the big picture, not just the mindset, not just the why; but like the literally like how do I do this thing without having to start from scratch?

So, that’s kind of my passion point is giving people the chassis to take off from. And the podcast has really taken off. It’s been trending, which is super cool. And I’m really looking at taking this thing into the stratosphere so that I can help as many advisors really step into that CEO role like we talked about back at the beginning. And really, my mission is to help advisors run their business instead of their business running them.

So, I know podcast people, you are my people. We tend to listen to anywhere from seven to eight different podcasts. I would love just to be one of the podcasts in the rotation, obviously, behind Retirement Tax Services and the Perfect RIA, of course, but I’d just like to be one of them.

And of course, you and I recorded an amazing episode together for the Efficient Advisors. So, I will just ask you to link my podcast in the show notes. And the other place I hang out is on LinkedIn. So, I’d love to connect with anybody and everybody there and share just sort of all of the systems that I built and that I’ve helped advisors from many, many, many different types of businesses create as well.

Steven Jarvis:   Perfect. Yeah, so definitely look for The Efficient Advisor Podcast, add into your rotation. If you don’t already follow Retirement Tax Services on LinkedIn, when you go to follow Retirement Tax Services, add Libby to the great social feeds that you’re following.

Libby, again, really appreciate you being here. It’s been so great having you as a guest on the show.

Libby Greiwe:    So fun. Thanks so much for having me.

Steven Jarvis:   Yeah, of course. And for everyone listening, until next time. Good luck out there. And remember to tip your server, not the IRS.

We’re not overpaying. No, we’re not overpaying. We’re not overpaying anymore. The tax code’s complicated, boring, and overrated. You don’t want that, you want a pro. One thing that you should know: this is a radio show. It’s not tax advice, don’t take it that way.