Read The Transcript Below:

Steven (00:49):

Hello everyone, and welcome to the next episode of the Retirement Tax Services Podcast, Financial Professionals Edition. I’m your host, Stephen Jarvis CPA, and I have a returning guest with me on the show today, Libby Griewe from the Efficient Advisor. So excited to have you back so that we can talk all things taxes and how people can incorporate this into their practice. Libby, welcome.

Libby (01:10):

Woohoo. Thank you so much for having me back. I’m always excited to do stuff with you guys.

Steven (01:15):

Yeah, I’m super excited to have you on the podcast. Again, we don’t have a ton of returning guests. We try to make sure we’re bringing new things in and it’s been a year since you’ve been on the podcast and we talk, so while we collaborate on things so often that like I had to go back and look, it’s like, has it really been that long? So really excited to get your perspective again on how, and really, really focusing on this topic of how advisors actually incorporate these things into practice. Because the theory of tax planning is great, but what we care about is how do we take action.

Libby (01:44):

Yeah, no, absolutely. I can’t believe it’s been a year. That doesn’t seem possible, but I guess, I guess time flies when you’re having fun.

Steven (01:52):

Yeah, it sure does. It sure does. Yeah. It’s been a whole year.

Libby (01:55):

Yeah. That’s crazy. Well, so something that I’ve been thinking a lot about and talking a lot about with financial advisors, specifically related to tax planning, but then also just kind of related to practice management, all things organization, kind of getting your, you know, your ish together so that you can deliver super high quality financial planning. And one of the big questions that I’ve been getting a lot from advisors is like, okay, so I know exactly what I wanna do in year one, right? Like, I wanna do all the things, I wanna follow whatever that looks like for everybody. It could, it looks a little different. So for some advisors it could be a three step process or a five step process, but essentially we all tend to follow roughly the same, getting to know a client, gathering their data, inputting in most likely into some sort of software program and doing some analysis, giving them recommendations, and then implementing and then servicing in an ongoing way.

(02:51):

Right? And so one of the questions that I get a lot from advisors is like, okay, well I know it to do year one, but then what on earth am I doing in year two, year three, year four, year five and beyond? And tax planning is such, at least it was for me in my practice. I honestly think the tax planning that we did was something that really was an integral part of our becoming a 100% referral only planning practice. It was just something that I think every advisor had good intentions of doing. But when we really made that shift, it was one of those inflection points for us where we started to receive referral upon referral upon referral. So I know I’m like sucking all of the oxygen out of the room all the way from here from Cincinnati, but I get excited about this cuz I think tax planning is so important, which is one of the reasons that we connected so early on.

(03:41):

Was just this idea of like, oh my gosh, if there was Steven back when I was running my practice before I sold it, I feel like I could have just exponentially grown my tax knowledge as an advisor and how to take that, you know, all of that complicated tax code and all of those ideas and processes and things that I wanted to do with my clients in order to improve their situation tax wise and really put them into action. I just think if you would’ve existed 15 years ago, it would’ve made everything so much easier cuz I really had to like fumble around and figured out all on my own and that totally sucked.

Steven (04:15):

Wow. I certainly appreciate the sentiment there and we are seeing a lot of success working with advisors who have that same mentality that you do of the importance of tax planning. In fact, literally earlier today I was on a call with one of our premier members talking about how we’re going to be working with their clients this summer on tax planning. And, I think it’s really relevant to what you’re talking about because it’s really easy from a tax perspective to try to focus on kind of the flashy things that are on that initial list of, Hey, come work with me because I can help you with these three specific things and that’s great right outta the gate, but what happens when you’ve taken care of those? And so one of the things that we work with our premier members to do is to have these ongoing check-ins with clients that we’re demonstrating the value over time as we get into year two, year three, year five, year 10, whatever it might be, to be able to say, Hey, here’s let’s not forget the great things we’re already doing together.

(05:09):

Cuz tax planning usually happens small amounts over time to say, Hey, just wanna remind you, here’s some great things we did and here’s how much taxes it saved you. Now here’s how much you put in your tax free bucket. Here’s a couple of things to consider. And you know, this year maybe we don’t take any action, maybe we’re setting ourselves up from two or three years from now, but it has to be this long-term approach. And I know you are all about systems and having really detailed processes for what that initial client onboarding looks like. And I’ve heard you talk about that before. But yeah, talk to me more about what does this look like in practice as you look at year two, year three, year four?

Libby (05:42):

Yeah, absolutely. So I can remember it was probably like six, seven years into running my financial planning business when you kind of have that moment. And I remember thinking like, okay, I’m feeling really bored. Like I feel like my clients are coming in and we’re updating Money Guide Pro, we’re going through their net worth and their returns and their investment portfolio. And I felt like, you know, it was a Groundhog day. Like I was doing the same thing over and over and over again. And I remember thinking like, well gosh, if I’m feeling this way, my clients have to be kind of feeling this way too, right? Like, are we really just kind of doing the same thing every year and just updating the numbers? And I started to have all the imposter syndrome, right? Associated with that. Like, well, am I adding enough value?

(06:24):

I’m charging them for planning and here I am busting out their plan, you know, 45 minutes before they come in the door. Like, is that really worth thousands and thousands of dollars, Libby? And it was when I had this shift and this kind of this revelation that, you know, if they’re gonna spend 20 minutes driving to my office and then an hour talking with me and then time driving home, I never, ever want a client to leave feeling like I could have looked that up online like, you know, I wanted to make sure it was extremely valuable and extremely impactful. So whether it was virtual or in person, that if they were gonna be spending time with us, that they left in a much better position and that they left going, Ugh, that was so good. Oh my gosh, I learned so much. And that’s one of the things I hear from advisors and I’m coaching all the time, is like, how do I make more time for education and how do I, and what I feel like a lot of us were doing, and what I was doing for so long was I had this idea that here’s what financial planning look looks like.

(07:20):

Every year we touch on all the tenets of planning, we update your Money Guide Pro, you come in, we put on our snorkel and we stay at the surface, but we talk about everything. We look at every fish, we talk about estate planning, we talk about protection, we talk about long-term care, we talk about investments, we talk about taxes, we talk about a little bit of everything. And that’s how I’m gonna justify my fee. And it was when I made this shift to planning in themes and taking kind of the different tenets of financial planning and really stretching them out over time and then layering and looking at these plans through different lenses or looking at these themes through different lenses. So, okay, so like, I’ll give you an example. So maybe 2024 we’d say, okay, the theme for this year is estate planning, but we’re gonna look at it through a very specific lens.

(08:09):

We’re gonna do an educational component, maybe first half of the year, our first round of meetings with clients. We’re gonna be talking about all things, getting your financial, like your basic stuff in order, making sure your beneficiaries are correct, doing a beneficiary audit. Like I know you guys are big proponents of making sure everything is in alignment and slowing the process down and saying, let’s reeducate on how your beneficiaries supersede your will. And hey, by the way, when’s the last time we’ve looked at your will? Does it need updating? You know, in the state of Ohio, I can very clearly remember the year that we added transfer on death affidavits on our homes. So, hey, now you can add a beneficiary to your house. Like here’s all of this like education reminder, making sure you’ve got all of your i’s dotted and your T’s crossed.

(08:53):

And then moving into the second of the year and still staying on the theme of estate planning, but looking at it through a slightly different lens. So maybe the second half of the year was gonna be all things estate taxes. And we can look at that through the lens of you are going to be inheriting money someday. So if you’re working with people who are just, you know, five, 10 years out from retirement talking about how estate taxes will be potentially impacting them or inheriting money, what that will look like from a taxation standpoint as we’re putting that into, or incorporating it into their retirement plan. And then maybe, you know, we plan, okay, next year we’re gonna talk about protection and then next year we’re gonna talk about income distribution. And what I love is every single tenant of financial planning has a tax lens to look through.

(09:37):

So let’s say like retirement income distribution. So maybe 2024 is all things estate planning. We’re gonna get documents updated, we’re gonna look at the beneficiaries, we’re gonna talk about taxation, maybe 2025, we’re gonna look at retirement income. So maybe we spend the first half of the year talking about here’s the five different ways that we can create and come from a portfolio for a client in retirement and here’s what those look like. And here just educating on all of the different things and then maybe having a value add or a webinar or something in the middle of the year that, by the way, here’s just a refresher on how taxation works on all types of retirement income. Now, I can’t tell you how many times I sat across from the table. So we worked with a lot of C-suite executives, we focused on individuals who are five to 10 years out from retirement that had complicated executive compensation package.

(10:28):

And we would sit there and talk to them about how marginal tax brackets worked. And it was like the first time they had ever heard it, they’re like, whoa. Back it up. So you are saying the first chunk of money that I make is tax free. Then the second chunk is taxed. Like I thought when I was in a 25% bracket, that literally everything was taxed at 25%. And so just kind of slowing it down and reminding ourselves that like, yes, just because we explained this to a client four or five years ago, doesn’t mean A, they remember it, or B, that they retained it or C that they were even paying attention. Because often, especially in the initial phases of financial planning, we’re delusion. We’re like giving you so much information, it’s a deluge of like all the things and all the recommendations and touching on every area.

(11:13):

And so what we found is when we made this shift, and what I see with advisors that we coach, when they make this shift to planning in themes, they’re able to slow the process down. And instead of snorkeling along the top and touching on all topics, we’re putting on our scuba gear and we’re getting super, super deep. And what that allows us to do is a couple of things. One, it allows us to really give clients reasons to come back year after year and to keep paying us ongoing fees because they’re seeing the value of what we’re doing. It’s not that Groundhog Day kind of the same appointment that we had last year with just a few tweaks and updates and yeah, sure. You’re gonna update that too. You know, we’re gonna make sure they’re on track and that, you know, their net worth is moving in the right direction.

(11:55):

We’re gonna do all of that stuff too, and we’re still gonna manage their investments and make sure that they’re allocated properly. But by switching to this theme from an efficiency standpoint, which is what I care about. Is also how can we build out systems and processes then to support these themes. And for me, when we’re doing something that’s really, really highly customized for a client, so like a beneficiary audit and you know, reviewing their will and bringing in an attorney and like, you know, touching on their trust and doing all of the things that’s really time intensive, but yet we can start planning a quarter or so in advance, like, Hey, here’s the process that we’re gonna need to put in place. We’re gonna have to have an email that goes out on this date. Here’s how we’re gonna track who has sent us what we’re, here’s all of the accounts that they have and here’s how we’re gonna know when we’ve gotten beneficiaries and here’s the software that we’re gonna put it all in to make sure that we’re doing this audit correctly and here’s the deliverable that we’re gonna give to those clients.

(12:50):

And we can start to build out that process. And what that does for our team is it gives them, they’re doing the same thing over and over again. Right? So it makes it streamlined, it makes it simple. They’re not having to update Money Guide Pro and write recommendations and run in life insurance illustration for this client and do Roth conversion stuff for this client over here. And so they’re doing kind of a similar thing over and over again, which obviously makes it extremely efficient. And then actually the efficiency of running the meeting, having a super similar agenda for the vast majority of your clients, right? So in a surge or whatever Yeah. Being able to kind of execute over and over and then having similar follow up. And a lot of the recommendations are gonna come out the same, maybe the numbers are tweaked, but if we’re focusing on a particular topic, it makes it really easy for us to build out a process or a system for our team to just wash, rinse, repeat during that theme.

(13:46):

And then we have that process built out. So the next time we come to that theme, even if we’re gonna change the lens at which we’re looking through, we’re gonna have a similar process that we’re gonna take it through and we’re gonna follow, we’re gonna execute and then we’re gonna follow up. And so I love thinking about this from a tax planning perspective because literally, you know, I have clients all the time going, I know I wanna do tax planning, so at the end of the year I have a big, you know, Q3, Q4 tax planning meeting and we’re harvesting gains and losses and we’re talking about conversions and we’re kind of doing the same stuff every year, which is good and you need to do that. And can we extend that theme out and use tax planning as a lens to look through? And something that comes up with advisors all the time too is like, okay, I know I need to do tax planning, but I, my acumen isn’t high.

(14:33):

Like, where do I go to get better? And obviously I’m like, doy, always look at RTS, but even like doing something small, like you don’t have to know the whole tax code, you don’t have to have it all memorized. And by operating in themes, it allows you to build your acumen around one particular topic versus feeling like, okay, I have to learn everything right now. So for example, I know you guys have the 8606 checklist coming out all around Roth conversions, right? So an advisor doesn’t have to be an expert at estate planning taxation, it doesn’t have to be an expert at capital gains work. Like they can literally just focus on this Roth conversion and that be part of their theme for 2024 or for 2025. And this idea of taking down something, you know, taking something really big like tax code and breaking it down into bite-size, palatable you know, pieces that we can implement year over year and just get really good at small. And especially for advisors who are training other advisors and wanting to bring in junior advisors and wanting to build out their team. What a great way to slowly teach depth of knowledge to advisors as opposed to asking them to be constantly snorkeling and know all things about all things by going deep, putting on that scuba gear and getting really good, I don’t wanna say it like one trick, but like really, really good at one topic like Roth conversion or something along those lines.

Commercial (15:55):

How many client referrals have you got because your tax planning advice is so good that your existing clients just can’t stop talking about it to their friends. If you are like most financial advisors who know that they need to improve the tax planning advice that they give clients, but struggle with knowing how to implement that and what actions to take, then you need to join us September 27th through the 29th in Las Vegas, Nevada. Go to retirementtaxservices.com and register for the event where leading financial advisors will be presenting materials alongside lead CPA Steven Jarvis on how they implement tax planning advice in their practice. You’ll leave this conference with actionable advice that you can take and make a change in the way that you structure financial planning advice when it comes to taxes. Join us in Las Vegas, Nevada, September 27th through the 29th by registering at retirementtaxservices.com.

Steven (16:57):

I love this analogy that you keep bringing back up of snorkeling versus scuba diving. That’s gonna stick with me, but you know, specific to this 8606 guide that you mentioned, you know, I really have to give some credit to you for a shift that we’ve started having for the resources we’re putting out to our members of taking great tax topics and making sure that as we’re delivering the great education and content, which we’ve always been good at, but making sure there’s a process to go along with it. So, this guy that you mentioned, its, oh, okay, I can literally write a dissertation on how backdoor Roth contributions and Roth conversions work. I mean, there’s so many nuances and exceptions. I mean literally that could be PhD level stuff, that’s not what’s going to help a client take action.

(17:35):

And so rather than write 78 pages on every possible nuanced outcome, we started with, okay, what should this look like? Not just what are the key points to remember which are there, but what are the steps? What is the process? Where does this show up on the tax return? What’s the key information you need to know? And so I remember listening to your presentation at TPR Live in 2022, talking all about how to have a process for things. I was really excited to have you come and speak at the RTS summit this year, but for some reason you decided that having spending time with your kids for their birthdays, that that was important. I guess I’ll forgive you eventually, but I do love this lens of yes, you want to continually learn more about topics, you wanna get that scuba gear on, but the scuba gear, and you correct me if I’m wrong cause I’m using your analogy now.

(18:23):

The scuba gear isn’t about knowing everything. It’s about doing it. That’s what’s sticking out to me is when I put scuba gear on it so I can go down and do something with it. And so, taking a topic like the back to Roth contribution or I just, the last week I finished writing the RTS newsletter for our members for August, which is all about the overlap of IRMAA and Roth conversions. And so, talking about these nuances, you talked about the marginal tax rate, making sure that people understand how IRMAA brackets get filled up, but it’s taking it to that, not just the knowledge piece, but then what’s the process? And you mentioned team in there a couple of times, so not just how does the advisor incorporate this, but how do they delegate it to their team? How do they make it as efficient as possible?

Libby (19:03):

Well, yeah, and I feel like we always like touch on stuff, right? Like, so when you are doing that kind of like scuba thing, you’re always like, okay, yeah, go update your beneficiaries. Go get your will done. Did you get your will done? Okay, great. And it’s very high level, it’s very client driven versus this is sort of taking the reins and really being that, that Sherpa guide, right? Like yeah. As opposed to being the advisor that takes all the paperwork and runs up the mountain top and comes back down as the guru and is like, here’s all the things you should do. Really being more of that Sherpa going, okay, we’re gonna do that now. Like here, let’s go deep on it. Let’s slow down, let’s take that time to actually be proactive as opposed to reactive.

(19:44):

So that was the big switch was we were doing annual reviews, right? And review is very retroactive. Like, Hey, what already happened? Let’s just look through, you know, here’s what went down in the last year. Your net worth went up by this, your liabilities went down by this, you know, here’s what your rates of return were versus this kind of fundamental shift of how do we actually do more strategic planning? So how do we work moving forward and how do we actually get that work done? And, that’s the hard part. Like for every advisor, if you’re covering 47 topics in every meeting and there’s follow up from each of those topics, it’s next to impossible for you to execute or to walk alongside your clients and help them execute. It’s a nightmare from a follow-up standpoint. And I think what I wanna do is just give advisors permission to slow down that process and to spread it out over several years.

(20:35):

We don’t have to get it all done for everybody yesterday. And like I said, for us it was this huge inflection point from a referral standpoint that our clients loved it. They felt like they were being educated, they felt like they were like looking at these things through different lenses that we were slowing down and taking the time to plan ahead and to be proactive as opposed to just handling things just in time or even worse kind of retroactively. And let’s be honest, every advisor has been there like that fourth or fifth year in the business is when you have that, oh no moment where you’re like, oh my gosh, like I have got to get ahead of this. Like, I feel like I’m drowning because I’m not working proactively for clients. And I feel like there’s too many to-dos out there, there’s just too much going on.

(21:17):

And this theme shift does so many things from an efficiency standpoint, but also from a client experience standpoint. And really, I mean really the whole year you can kind of sketch out these are the topics. Like we’re gonna set a theme for the year. Here’s gonna be the tax piece of it, here’s gonna be our planning piece of it, here’s gonna be our value ads, here’s gonna be our social media content. Literally everything can kind of live around this theme, which makes everything fall into place. And the way that you organize, or the way that I like to organize my themes is I love to look at a 24 or 36 month rolling calendar and saying like, okay, here’s what we’re gonna cover this year. And then how does that smoothly transition into the following year? So for example, let’s say 2024 is all things estate tax or estate planning.

(22:00):

And end of the year you’re, you know, putting a little bow on it with taxation and you’re looking at it through that lens. Well that can very easily move into a year of what does long-term care look like and long-term care planning or that could easily, you know, shift into generosity and charitable giving. And are there other ways that we could be leveraging gifts inside for the people who want to give, to give assets. Like, there’s just so many ways that these themes can kind of very naturally roll into each other where all of this knowledge that you’re building for your clients kind of builds upon itself. And we always try to incorporate into every meeting what I call a kind of a water cooler topic where there’d be one like really interesting bullet point that a client could super sink their teeth into that they could share at work the next day at the water cooler.

(22:46):

I don’t even know if water cooler still exists or if that’s even a thing. Everyone just brings their stand like cup, right? But you know, like, so they have this one little thing that they could latch onto that they could share, and the idea being that they’re out there talking like they’re learning stuff and they’re sharing it and their friends or their family are going, oh, I’ve never even heard of that. I didn’t even know there was such thing as net unrealized appreciation. I mean, you can literally take every single tenant of financial planning and tie it to taxes. So if tax planning is important to advisors, and it should be, and especially advisors listening to this podcast like, duh, they already get it. So, but how can we make it interesting? How can we look at it through the lens through a slightly different lens every year using resources like, you know, like the 37 point checklist and the 8606 checklist and all of these little things that you guys are putting out there, which are phenomenal and fantastic and thank you because the advisors I work with are loving them, but how can we make it bite-size for advisors, but big for their, like still a big client experience.

Steven (23:47):

You kind of almost casually mentioned it in there a couple of times. I love that you drew it back to the client experience a few times in there cuz it can be really easy. And as you and I get together and nerd out on this, it can easily sound to the audience like, we’re really focused on our efficiency and our effectiveness and what this means to the advisor. But at the end of the day, all of this, and I know this is true for you too, that your shift in your career was not just how do I spend less time at work. It was the combination of how do I do this more efficiently and not just deliver the same value but deliver more value to my clients? And so all of these things we’re talking about, they really come down to this lens of how does it elevate the client experience?

(24:27):

Because even stretching, even taking all these different topics and stretching them out over four years instead of trying to jam ’em all into a single month, that is so much more valuable for the client. Because to your point, if you’ve got 47 things and follow up items and all of ’em, how many of ’em are really gonna get done versus if we give the client permission to say, Hey, we’re gonna work together for a while and we’re gonna tackle these things one at a time and we’re gonna make sure that we’re prioritizing the right ones, we’re taking care of what we need to, but we’re gonna work together over this period of time to make sure that everything gets done.

Libby (24:59):

Yeah, no, absolutely. And that’s like one of the biggest things I hear from people is like, oh, you know, we’re all on the inside, right? Like advisors are all on the inside and we know we’re listening to podcasts, we are on LinkedIn, we know what Matt’s doing over here and we know what Bill’s doing over here in Idaho and like we know what everybody’s doing and delivering to their clients. And it’s so frustrating because I’ll have advisors be like, whoa, I need to be doing this and I need to be doing that. And I’m like, well, first of all, a your clients don’t know that Matt’s doing that and they don’t like, most likely they’re not listening to the same stuff that we’re listening to. Right? Which you do wanna do that, but you need to get your systems in, processes in place in order to add the capacity.

(25:36):

To be able to deliver more impact on a yearly basis. So you have to, yes, it is selfish for you to want to work less or be less overwhelmed or less stressed. But if you burn out as an advisor and you quit and you leave those, you know, a hundred, 200, 300 clients hanging and having to scramble to find somebody new, you’re doing nobody any service. So by slowing it down, by building out those systems and processes, by reducing your own overwhelm and by making it easier for your team to operate more efficiently, just build capacity to deliver more value and to deliver more impact.

Steven (26:13):

Yeah. Libby, so many great points in there. You and I could nerd out on this for hours, but we wanna make sure we’re respectful of the audience’s time as well. I know that right now you are in the middle of bringing together a new group. I’m gonna get this wrong, but you’re the open window for group coaching to get started. I know that you do such great work with advisors on taking all of these things we talk about and saying, no, here’s how you implement it. Here’s what goes on your calendar, here’s how I’m gonna help you problem solve. So talk more about how that program works and what the opportunity right now is.

Libby (26:43):

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Well thank you. Yeah, I’m super excited. So this is something it’s been in beta, we’ve been testing it for a couple of years. It’s based off of a framework that I built having been in the industry for the last two decades. And it’s called the Systems to Scale framework. And so what’s really different about what we’re doing is it’s actually a program designed to get the thing done. Like we are going to start where there’s basically six levels or six layers of a financial planning practice that we’re gonna walk through and we are going to create the key systems and processes like the stuff nobody wants to do, like building out the template, the SOP, the standardizing the process, productizing your service, pricing it like getting it all to a place where everything operates smoothly and efficiently, but we’re getting it done.

(27:31):

It’s not just gonna live on this like, oh, I’m gonna schedule a whole day. I’m gonna set aside an eight hour day to work on this process. And you and I both know that every time you do that, when that eight hour day comes, you have so many other fires that you’re having to put out or things that are right in front of your nose. You’re just in the tornado of your business that you don’t ever actually seem to move that thing from the to-do list to the done list. So this is a program designed for advisors who want to move quickly, who want support, who want the templates, the checklist, the resources, all of this stuff that we’ve accumulated over the last, you know, nearly two decades and actually move all of these systems and processes. So things like building out your ideal client avatar, identifying your planning process, what happens before, during, after, and in between literally every single meeting and when does it go out?

(28:20):

Who does it, where is it stored? What’s the template? Do I have a template? Do I need to create a template? And giving you a lot of the tools so that you’re not sitting there on an eight hour day staring at a blank piece of paper. But you’re also in a group format where there are other advisors who have, who are, and they’re all super cool. It’s what’s been really fun is to see the willingness to share. Like we’re all kind of in it together and like, here’s the template I made and here’s the one that I’m using. And even though everybody delivers their service a little differently, it’s an opportunity for everyone to kind of group think and collaborate, which is really fun.

Steven (28:52):

That’s awesome. So Libby, if I remember right this, the window’s kind of open through August 10th so that, you can get everybody kickstarted and off and running. Cuz to your point, this is about getting stuff done. You’re not gonna drag the onboarding out for six months. So where do advisors actually go to learn about this to get signed up?

Libby (29:08):

Yes. You can go to the efficientadvisor.com and there will be a big old link right there on the main page that takes you to the systems to scale. Or you can check out the coaching tab for individual or group coaching options.

Steven (29:20):

Awesome. Well far for advisors listening if you’re looking for that hands-on help of how this stuff gets implemented. Cause again, we talk about a lot of really interesting things on this podcast through the RTS community. We’re definitely very focused on helping people put this into practice. But I’m not taking the time to sit down with individual advisors and say, well, here’s where in the three or four year journey that this should go or here’s who on your team you should delegate this to. And so, to me, this is a great overlap of the resources we provide and then the hands-on help that you give to advisors. So yeah, the efficientadvisor.com, if you’re looking for more on what we’re doing at Retirement Tax Services it’s easy enough. Retirementtaxservices.com. Love to see you all at the summit in September. Virtual or in person. Libby as always, really appreciate you taking time and coming and sharing your perspective. This has been great.

Libby (30:08):

Yeah. Well thanks so much for having me. I always love collaborating with you guys.

Steven (30:11):

Awesome. To everyone listening, good luck out there. And remember to tip your server, not the IRS!