Read The Transcript Below:

Steven (00:55):

Hello everyone, and welcome to the next episode of the Retirement Tax Services podcast, Financial Professionals edition. I’m your host, Steven Jarvis, CPA, and with me today I have a very special guest, Dr. Robin Henager, who is the associate dean of the School of Business at Whitworth University, which is actually university that I have previously been an adjunct professor at, but completely unrelated to my involvement. Whitworth now offers a really exciting program in financial planning that Dr. Robin’s here to talk about and more broadly talk about how academic learning fits into financial planning overall. And so I’m really excited to have a conversation. So Robin, welcome to the show.

Robin (01:33):

Thank you. I’m happy to be here.

Steven (01:34):

And I believe that you joined the list of dozens now of podcast guests I’ve had where this is the first podcast you’ve been on, is that? That is correct. Perfect. Love introducing people to new things. So Robin, why don’t you give a little bit of your background before the financial planning program because this is a relatively new program and I’m super excited about everything I’m hearing about this program specifically and then we’ll talk more broadly about what programs like this do for financial advisors.

Robin (02:00):

Oh, thank you. There’s a handful of financial planning programs across the country. My PhD is from the University of Georgia, which has one of the biggest financial planning programs. There’s one at Kansas State and there’s a big one at Texas Tech, but there aren’t any on the West coast and, well, I shouldn’t say there aren’t any on the West coast, but we are the only program that’s within five states for the Masters of Science in financial planning. We just saw a big need for financial planning in the Pacific Northwest in this regional area, so we designed a program that is low residency so we could attract students from various places. We get people from Spokane where we’re located, but we have people, students that have come from Oregon and from the west side of Washington state and Idaho and Montana, and it’s really nice to be able to provide an outreach to add to this profession because we need newbies in this profession. We need more financial planners and Whitworth wants to be able to add to that.

Steven (02:57):

So I love so much about how this program is set up because even just the way you’re describing that you’re not taking a blanket or templated approach to how a program should run. You’re looking at who it is you’re trying to serve and how you can specifically tailor this to their needs, which is really what financial planning is all about. We can spend all day on the concepts, but at the end of the day it’s about helping individuals take action that are going to better their life, better what they’re doing over the long-term, helping them accomplish their goals. And you mentioned in there, but I guess I should have clarified for our audience that Whitworth is based here in Spokane, which is where I am from as well, but I love that you already mentioned that this is really a hybrid approach so that you can help as many people as possible.

Robin (03:39):

We realized that the profession is very relationship focused and we didn’t want to be an online provider. There are plenty of good programs that provide this, but we really wanted to be able to get to know our students and allow our students to network with professionals in the industry. So we do a lot of networking while when students are in towns, we’ll come to campus for four or five days and then they’ll take two classes online and then they’ll come back to campus for four or five days, two classes online, and then we do the capstone to get them ready to take their CFP back on campus again and every time they’re in town, we go to dinner with planners, we have lunches with them. We just get to know the other advisors that are in the community and let them understand the relationship part of it. We do a lot of that. There’s a balance between the academic learning that we need to cover in the classroom. It’s a lot of material that these students need to learn and they have some pretty big textbooks to get through yet we want them to really be good advisors, not just pack a bunch of knowledge in their brains. And so we do a lot of case studies while they’re here in person. We teach our financial counseling class in person and the capstone is fully focused on case studies, so we’re trying to reach that balance between good textbook learning, prepping them for the CFP exam, which they all want to take, and just providing them with the everyday skills that these professionals will need when they start meeting face-to-face with clients and they want to have a good relationship with that client or they want to do a good job with them.

Steven (05:18):

No, that’s great. I love the perspective that you’re sharing there because it’s helpful not just for the program itself, but for advisors listening. This is how we should be thinking about how we serve our clients and how we run our businesses. When I heard that this program was getting started up, there was a separation between when I was an adjunct at Whitworth and this program starting, but it was under the school of business and some of these themes you’re talking about are clearly important to Whitworth beyond just this program because for me and for people who’ve listened to the podcast for a long time, my approach to these types of things is that we shouldn’t just across the board take courses just there. We shouldn’t just add designations because they’re there, but as long as there’s an intentionality behind it and there’s more than just the textbook learning, we can learn a lot of really important things academically. I love hearing about programs and not just the way you’re describing, but I’ve actually already talked to advisors in town who have been affiliated with some of the interactions that you’re talking about. I’ve heard really positive things on that side too. I love this hands-on experience, this relationship building, this acknowledgement that we can’t just read a textbook and suddenly magically know how to serve clients, which is definitely one of the things I’d love for you to talk about more of. What are specific things that students get to do within the program that help them get ready for that real world experience? How do you make sure it doesn’t just somebody get lost in a textbook?

Robin (06:37):

Right? Yeah, thank you. Great question. We start out, the first class is on financial counseling, soft skills, really relationship building case studies. We do breakout in groups and then when we come back together, each group presents back to the classroom, how would you have handled this with a client? What did your group decide to do? And then they debated with each other and part of the program we have what we call the CFP plus program. So we have some people in the program that already have their CFP and some that don’t, and this was a great mix, a great dialogue, and they came back from these case studies, how did you actually propose that you engage with this client and what would you tell them? And then I would ask the CFP in the classroom, what would you do? And then they discussed it. It was really a neat mix. So we have quite a diverse set of ages and experiences in the classroom, so that’s one. But then we threw them into some pretty heavy textbook classes. And so we’re reworking a few things that we did last year. Last year was our first year and it was great fun, but we decided to make that financial counseling class now called fundamentals and financial counseling. And they are now going to get a little bit of tax planning, a little bit of retirement planning, a little bit of portfolio management and on so that they are prepared to go on to some of those heavier textbook classes.

Steven (07:58):

I love that approach. I love that even a year in you’re already taking feedback and looking at how you can improve. To me that shows such a commitment to making sure that the students have a really positive outcome, that this isn’t just let’s check all the boxes on concepts we taught them or formulas they learned and we’ve had some of those conversations. That’s why I was so excited to have you on the podcast because I can see that firsthand of you went through this first year and you said at least the things that I’m hearing are very much of, okay, how do we level up that practical side? I love that before you even get to the textbooks, because so many people I think make the mistake of, well, let’s dive into the textbooks and we can figure out the hands-on piece later. And I think that’s so backwards. So I love that you’re starting with here’s what this actually means to a client. Here’s how this is going to have an impact. Let’s start that as the foundation, then get some of the textbook learning and then come back to it later. Because I think for probably a lot of people listening to this podcast, were more familiar with kind of the legacy of the financial planning industry, which as I’ve gotten more and more involved in it, I’ve seen this and I grew up around financial planning. You had a lot of professionals who had other backgrounds, they grew up through insurance, they did something completely unrelated. And so there’s very much this mentality that’s really easy for me to get on board of, Hey, get in your hands dirty, work hard, figure this out as you go, this practical over theory kind of approach. And I think there’s a real place for that, but I think we’re going to see more and more as programs like this pop up that you’re going to have these students who either this was their first exposure to financial planning, and you can speak more to this in a minute, Robin. You have people who are into their career and they see a program like this as an opportunity to level up. You’re going to see more and more advisors who earlier in their career get exposed to these ideas and who more early on are saying, Hey, I should be involved in tax planning or I should help facilitate this estate planning. And so I see this as a really exciting opportunity. I love that you’re taking this forward looking approach of let’s get feedback and let’s adjust as we go.

Robin (09:49):

Right. Oh, that just going to make the program so much better. I find that the people in this profession, financial planners are educators at heart. You’ve taught for Whitworth before. You need a master’s degree to teach at the university level, which too, a lot of the people that are coming back that already have their CFP want their master’s degree so that they can teach.

Steven (10:07):

Oh, interesting.

Robin (10:08):

You guys are built in educators and I love that. And so they see the potential with their own opportunities, what they bring to the classroom as well. So we have some early right out of undergrad, we have some mid-career. We have some people that are changing their career and then we have some people that have been in the industry for quite a while and it makes a wonderful classroom. I love it.

Steven (10:30):

That’s really interesting. So Robin, how people are listening to this podcast with the evaluation of, is this something they should look into more, whether it’s Whitworth program or another one of this might be somebody listening, thinking about their own situation. This could be business owner or a team leader who’s thinking about younger professionals on their team. So who do you see as somebody who should be thinking really hard about a program like this? Or another way to think about this is when you see a candidate come in applying for the program, what are you excited to see on their resume as they come in?

Commercial (11:02):

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Robin (12:12):

Well, I really like to see a diverse class of students come in. So the kind of student that’s just come out of their undergraduate program, heavy finance, super excited about learning how to apply their knowledge and finance to actually helping people’s lives. They all have to write an essay. They all have to have an interview with us to come into the program. So we want people that are excited about that relationship focused part of that program. However, somebody that’s come out of undergrad with a degree in psychology that wants to do this is golden because you don’t have to have all those numbers in place. What you really need is the desire to help people and understand because we in the financial counseling class, we cover a lot of behavioral finance, understand, and a psychology student, a sociology student, some other undergraduate majors you can have, can really understand what’s going on with those theories. And so that’s one thing that I love to be able to see. A recent graduate, I’ll say, that has a passion for the industry that they want to learn and that’s what they want to do. Somebody that’s hasn’t had time to take their CFP exam yet, and like you said, they want to level up. They bring great experience to the classroom and I love them. They’re excited about doing something a little bit new. They have a lot of knowledge already. And then we have, like I mentioned, the career changers. We had one of them in our program this last year and he and I met for coffee about a month ago. He’s excited now about making the move from where he’s been, which is a job he’s loved, but he wants to do this just a little bit more in the financial planning world. And so he’s excited about that. And then I love, there’s one financial planner here in town that I’m working on, he already has a CFP, and I just told him, you would be a great addition to our classroom because then the students could learn something from you. So it’s people who are excited about the profession, basically. That’s who we want to have.

Steven (14:21):

That’s so critical, and you can see as I work with advisors in their practices, you can really see the difference on people who are passionate about this versus people who are catching a paycheck. And you find that in any industry, but in financial planning, it’s so relationship driven that if you don’t have that at some point you’re going to run into challenges. Robin, you already mentioned that you just got through the first year. You’re super excited about the program, looking on how you improve it. If you fast forward 10 years from now, what are you going to look back on to say, Hey, this was a huge success. I’m so glad we did this.

Robin (14:52):

Oh, that’s a wonderful question. Take me forward 10 years. This is my baby. I’ve been so excited to get it started and I’ve been working on sort of socializing the idea with the other administrators at the university so that I could start it for about 10 years. So I stretch this out, the work that I’ve put into it, I would love to have a solid alumni base that can say, we had a great experience at Whitworth. I’d love to have a great alumni base that then says, we love this profession and I can watch them be successful in their careers. And then they tell other people, Hey, Whitworth has a great program.

Steven (15:35):

Well just like anybody running a business, because at the end of the day, that’s what this is. You’re doing it in a little bit different setting than financial advisors. But I mean client referrals are always one of the strongest indications that you’re providing value. The fact that someone would come and benefit from your service that you’re providing an education in this case and then go tell someone else, Hey, this was a fantastic experience. You need to do that too. That’s such a great endorsement that you are providing a tremendous amount of value.

Robin (16:00):

That’s a good point.

Steven (16:01):

So Robin, I know that your background is not as a financial advisor, but you are a person just like the rest of us, and I would imagine that there’s at least some level of your own personal experience with financial planning as a consumer, as a client that has informed what you are seeing in the program. So from a high level, don’t get into any of the personal details, but what’s that experience been like for you running this program and then also needing these services yourself and where’s the overlap?

Robin (16:29):

Oh, that’s interesting. I have learned a lot this year in the last couple of years, setting this program up just based on all the people I meet. I think, oh, do I need to know that for my own personal life? Okay, I’ll take notes. That’s fun. But my career, I started out in corporate finance. I worked for Lockheed Martin as a budget analyst and then a forward pricer. And then when my oldest daughter was born, I didn’t really want to do 70 hour work weeks. I took a part-time job working in ministry for a gentleman named Larry Burquette. He had a radio program and talked about money matters and that sort of thing. And I worked there for a long time. I started out part-time, then went full-time. My kids got a little bit older and was the director of global strategic research there. I’ve learned how in working there, how to apply the corporate financial knowledge I had to changing people’s lives to applying that to personal finance and watching sitting across the table from people and watching that light bulb go on, oh, I need to do this to budget. Oh, I need to do this. Wow, okay. It was amazing and I loved it. I loved it. And I was a seminar instructor for them and a budget coach. I loved it so much that I went back to school again, and that’s when I went before my PhD at the University of Georgia and I studied consumer economics, so I’m interested in the individual and how they behave. And this program also is a financial planning program as well. And so I mixed in with that as well in that program. And then I just wanted to make a difference. I mean, that sounds so sort of generic. Everybody wants to make a difference, but in this way, that’s the thing that I think I can use to make a difference in people’s lives. And so if I can do that and teach students to do that, to help people, because it’s just a complicated mess out there.

Steven (18:15):

And getting more complicated. The rules are changing all the time. Before we hit record, we were talking about the inherited IRA rules. I mean, it seems like every day we turn around and there’s a new complexity to how people navigate their financial lives. And so you certainly get that multiplier effect by helping students, by helping existing professionals who are leveling up by having that impact multiple times over as they help their clients as well. Right. Let’s change gears just a little bit. I run into a lot of advisors. This expands beyond advisors as well, but that’s who I spend most of my time with, especially when they hear that I’ve been an adjunct professor before or that I do different things with universities. They say, Hey, I would love to get involved with the university as well. To your point, they have that passion for teaching. Maybe they don’t want to be an adjunct themselves, but I’d love to go speak to students. I’d love to do these help with internships or mentoring. But there’s two sides to this of just the administrative logistics of making something like that happen. I know people who have said, well, I always wanted to do that. I just wasn’t sure how. So both for Whitworth specifically and just in general as advisors are listening to this, if someone wants to get involved in the university and give back, what’s a productive way to reach out? What can they offer besides just becoming another headache of one more person to manage? What’s the productive way to do that?

Robin (19:30):

Right. That’s a great question. Well, if you could serve on an advisory board with the university, that’s always helpful because it makes programs better. To your earlier point that we are really interested in making this program better. Every time I hear something that I know I can fix with a program, I want to make it better. So we have put together an advisory board, and many universities have this for different programs, and many accrediting bodies actually ask the schools to do this so that they can improve because it is about continuous improvement. And so we have an advisory board that advises for our program when we meet a couple times a year and we talk about the curriculum, how we’re running some of the classes, what ideas do they have for the program, some of the things that we did, and would they have done it that way? What do you think that they need to know in the real world? That’s an excellent way. And then we provide opportunities for those advisory board members to meet one-on-one with students or meet, and we have some presentation opportunities for our student investment group. We have our advisory board that will come and speak to them. If you wanted to give back, even financially, host a dinner, host a lunch for students that are in a program like this, get to know them. Ask them for coffee one-on-one with them to mentor some students just to see, because a student might not know whether or not they want to do financial planning. If they’re an undergraduate student, for example, if they’re studying finance, I’m not sure I want to do it. Spending an hour or two with someone that does this for a living can really be helpful.

Steven (21:05):

There’s such an impact on that, and we see that throughout the industry, and that’s one of the huge benefits of the tax summit that we put together of getting advisors in a room to learn from each other, that extends to students and people coming up through it. So I really like that recommendation. Just finding ways that, whether it’s financially or with your time, that’s a huge commitment, but it makes such a difference for people who can hear what it’s really like to be a financial advisor, to know those things that they should focus on to hear that perspective. I know for me personally, and this is one of the reasons I became an adjunct myself, was the professors that had the biggest impact on me were ones that had that real world experience who could speak to, here’s a time I sat with a client and the impact I was able to have and the experience I was able to change, whatever that might look like. So yeah, I would definitely say that for anyone who’s thought about that, I mean, take this as an opportunity to reach out if there’s program that you’ve been a part of before or in your local community, it can be easier if it’s somewhere local so that you can have those in-person experiences. Robin, as we wrap this conversation up, how would people learn more about the Whitworth program?

Robin (22:08):

Well, we have quite a bit of information on our website, and we also have an enrollment advisor that you can contact on that. If you click the apply now, she would reach out to you or we could just get her phone number and talk to. I think it’s nice to talk to people. You just pick up the phone and talk to our enrollment advisor about what the program looks like, the time commitment that’s required, that sort of thing.

Steven (22:30):

Well, and that just reinforces how we kick this all off with this is a very relationship based industry, and so I love that that’s how you approach the program as well. It’s not, Hey, give me your money and apply online and we’ll see you next fall. Let’s start this conversation. Let’s make sure this is something you’re going to be excited about, something you’re going to be passionate about, so that this is a great experience for everybody involved.

Robin (22:49):

That’s why I hesitated to say, go to our website.

Steven (22:53):

We’re all that. I have a website, I have social, all those things. But at the end of the day, the best relationships come from those direct interactions. So I love that there’s that opportunity there to talk with an advisor to learn what the program’s all about. So Robin, really appreciate your time talking about all this and everything you’re doing to help that next generation of the industry learn these things from the jump to say, here are the things that are going to be important as you serve clients. So thanks for being here. I really appreciate your time.

Robin (23:18):

Thank you very much.

Steven (23:19):

And to everyone listening, until next time, good luck out there. And remember to tip your server, not the IRS.