Transcript

Steven Jarvis:

Hello everyone and welcome to the next episode of the Retirement Tax Services Podcast, Financial Professionals Edition. I am your host, Steven Jarvis CPA. And in this show, I teach financial advisors how to deliver massive value through tax planning. For the first time on today’s episode, we are doing the second part of a to-be-continued. Back with me today is Matt Lincoln who’s an enrolled agent and recently acquired his CFP designation as well. And as we wrapped up our episode last week, he had questions for me and we were out of time, but I invited him back to go ahead and ask those questions. So, Matt, thanks for coming back.

Hello everyone and welcome to the next episode of the Retirement Tax Services Podcast, Financial Professionals Edition. I am your host, Steven Jarvis CPA. And in this show, I teach financial advisors how to deliver massive value through tax planning. For the first time on today’s episode, we are doing the second part of a to-be-continued. Back with me today is Matt Lincoln who’s an enrolled agent and recently acquired his CFP designation as well. And as we wrapped up our episode last week, he had questions for me and we were out of time, but I invited him back to go ahead and ask those questions. So, Matt, thanks for coming back.

Matthew Lincoln:

I’m thrilled to be here. I, I have a lot of questions and I wanna kind of jump in if you don’t mind by asking, tell me just a little bit about your journey to get to retirement tax services. You know, what were you doing a little bit and, and, and, you know, how did you do this… rumors that you have family in the business, but, you know, tell, tell me just a little bit of background.

How Did Steven Get Started With Helping Tax Professionals? [2:00]

SJ:

Yeah, that is a great question. I definitely, I’m almost getting close to a year into the podcast and a year ago, if you would’ve asked me if I’d ever do a podcast, I probably would’ve said no. As I’ve spent my whole career as a CPA, uh, I worked for some of the largest firms in the country. And so it was very much in traditional CPA tax preparation land of, of here’s here’s our job. We get our charge hours, we serve our clients and, and we move on. And then, so when I, when I started into this, someone said, “oh, you, you just need to dive right into the podcast, making sure you, you delivering value to the audience, don’t get hung up on, on, on where you came from.” So I appreciate you asking me the question because it, it certainly, well, it was not what I expected, but I grew up around this industry.

My dad, got into the, well, he became an insurance salesman when I was, uh, eight or nine, and then quickly transitioned to more of the CFP world of, of doing planning. He became a CFP and then my brother joined the business with him, Matt Jarvis, who’s the co-founder of The Perfect RIA. And over the years, he, he would kind of call me and say, “Hey, you know, I’ve always got issues with, with clients getting their taxes done. I would love to have someone who, who focuses on working with advisors and their clients.” And I always kind of told him, “Hey, like I here’s the path I’m on and I’m excited about it. So I’m just gonna keep doing this thing.” And this last time we had a conversation about it and he really illustrated for me, here’s the problem in these industries. And here’s how I think we could solve it. Let’s figure out how we can do this. And in my heart of hearts as a CPA, I mean, the thing that has always excited me the most is the problem-solving aspect of what I do. And so that was a lot of the appeal to me to say, okay, here, here’s a real need. And no one that’s really solving it, let’s create a service that’s focused on financial advisors and their clients.

ML:

You know, it, it’s interesting. And we talked about it in the last episode about the, the two different sides of our industry. And so I think maybe you’re ahead of the game to realize that and to say, you know, there’s gotta be a better way to, you know, manage this relationship. And so with that said, let me ask you, you’ve got retirement tax services, like who is a client of retirement tax services? Who comes to you and asks you to do something? Is it a, uh, is it an advisor? Is it, is it broker dealer? Is, is it, you know, big firms? Is it little firms? What’s your target?

SJ:

Yeah. So, we want to work, we do work with advisors who are committed to tax planning. So, I mean, I say it in the intro to the podcast episodes, but I work with advisors to deliver massive value through tax planning. And so whether advisors are coming to us because they’ve got, they want to improve their capability or their capacity, I, we have advisors all over the spectrum of what their current tax planning ability is. So, I mean, I, I’ve got advisors who have been doing tax planning, their entire careers, and, and I’m not gonna try to go toe to toe with them and compare tax knowledge. But they’re focused on spending their time in their highest and best use. And so coming to retire our tax services, to get content from us, to get insight from us, to get questions answered is a huge help for them from a capacity standpoint. We also have a lot of advisors who, who see the value in tax planning, but don’t know where to start. And so, they are very much coming to us to, to learn and to see how they can do more with their clients through tax planning.

ML:

So when you engage with an advisor, is there a conversation up front that talks about, you know, where’s the best place for you in the relationship, or is the service that you provide? Is it super well defined? Like, are you always doing the advisors, clients tax returns, or is that sometimes, are you always providing, like, what are the things? So, you know, I, I wanna come to you as an advisor and I wanna work with you so I can have this tax professional in my team, what are the elements of that service?

How Can Advisors Collaborate With RTS? [5:54]

SJ:

Yeah. Great question. So really there’s two different services we provide. We provide a membership directly to advisors that is, Hey, we’re gonna share content and resources and education from combined experience of, of what I’ve done as a CPA, as well as collaborating with advisors. So we know this works in practice. So there’s the strictly advisor piece of it, of you, you are gonna keep doing the tax planning. You’re just gonna have this huge leg up to know what works and to know what to focus on, to have some of these resources, some white label content. I do some tax return reviews for those advisors. So there’s a variety of things we do to really empower advisors, to do more with tax planning.

ML:

Let me, let me just pause and make sure I got all that, because there were a couple different elements that you threw in there. So you said when you engage in that with a client, so number one, you’re just gonna be on one in delivering knowledge and updates and tax. So there’s a continuing education component of that, right? And is that a one-to-many thing where you’re gonna record or have a webinar, a session, and all the advisors will hop, or is it a one-to-one delivery?

SJ:

Yeah, so for that, we call it our essentials membership. It’s, it’s a, it’s a one-to-many relationship it’s, we’re, we’re leveraging, and this is content coming from myself as, as well as in partnership with some of the advisors at The Perfect RIA. So we know this is stuff that works in practice, so that’s our essentials membership. And so I think the piece that really you’re more curious about is what we call our premier membership. And this is going beyond, “Hey, let’s provide some content and resources for you”, and this is, “Hey, let’s partner together to make sure that now our mutual clients are, are served in the best way possible.”

ML:

So that, that is what I’m curious about because I mean, I think any advisor needs to be participating in the essentials program or, or some equivalent to it where they’re getting good industry relevant tax feedback, but that one-on-one engagement. So, you know, let’s say I’m an advisor and I’ve got you know, I’ve got my 50 favorite clients and I’m very happy with them, but like, I wanna bring a tax expert into the relationship and I don’t just need training. Like I need you in my client’s information. Do I engage with you and you help me with all of my clients? And also is it Steven that’s helping me with all my clients. Do you have a team of people that’s helping me with my clients? Yeah.

SJ:

Yeah so I’ll try to make I address all of those. And you just, you just call me out if I, I missed one of ’em, but so the way it works for this premier membership, this is a partnership, it’s a collaboration. So retirement tax services is who is signing the, the tax returns. So we are taking the responsibility for the tax preparation piece of it, for the clients who this is a great fit for. Because that’s a question I definitely get because understandably there’s advisors who say you, “I don’t feel comfortable putting my name on a tax return.” I don’t blame em, but that, that conversation is, “which of your clients does this make sense for?” So it’s not you come to me and you’ve gotta sign up all of your clients or none of your clients, because one of the things that we’ve done is to say tax is a very expansive area.

And a lot of to tax preparers I think fall in this trap of, they feel like they have to be able to do all things for all people, if it’s tax related that oh yeah. That if, if you come to a tax trap, yeah. It’s a total trap of if I I’m a CPA. So if you come and say, hey, you gave an example in, in, in the last episode of, of “I’ve got investments in these nine different publicly traded partnerships, uh, to make it more fun. We’ll say that half of ’em are international.” And that there’s all these, there’s all these different things going on. And somehow in the tax professional world, we’ve got it instilled in us that if you come to me and ask for that, I, I feel obligated to say, “yep, I can figure that out.”

And so the client’s not gonna get quality service, probably other clients are gonna suffer as well because now you’re spending so much time on this one issue. So we said, you know what, that we’re not doing that. And so we very narrowly defined who we’re working with right now. Who’s a, a great fit for our service from a taxpayer standpoint. So we’re very focused on the individual side. There is a few things that we just, we just don’t do including international tax. And so we’ve really narrowly defined who we work with so that we know the people who we’re working with are getting exceptional service from us. So an advisor comes to us and says, “Hey, I wanna participate in this premier program.” And then we say, great, here’s the criteria of who is gonna be a great, great fit for us.

And then, so then it’s up to the advisor. I don’t take their client list and start bombarding their clients with, “Hey, you should come sign up for us.” This is completely driven by the advisor. And then the advisor says, yep, these 20 clients are a great fit. And then it’s up to the advisor if they want to pay for the service themselves, because they include it in their fee. They charge the client in some other way. Or if they say, you know what, this is something I’m gonna recommend to my clients, but ultimately they’re gonna decide if they want to go this route and pay for this.

ML:

So is there a more common answer to that question? And have you had enough experience that you can see that yes, it’s better when the advisor integrates it into their cost or no, it’s better when the client and choose to stop?

SJ:

I don’t have a, a lot of insight into that. So, I mean, we started building retirement tech services in 2021. Uh, and so we, we piloted this with advisors throughout 2021 and the 2022 tax season is the first full tax season we’re doing with advisors. And so we’re seeing a combination of both. I think that’s more of how the advisor is already structuring the relationship with the client and kind of what the situation the client’s coming from.

ML:

So then if, so I’m an advisor, I have some clients that are gonna be a great fit. And you said that those are individual clients, you know, not international. What about if that client has a, a, a single owner S Corp or something like that, is that also in your wheelhouse?

SJ:

So right now, we are not focused on doing business returns. So if somebody has a side hustle that, you know, they, they get a 1099 for, you know, 10, $20,000 and there’s, there’s not a lot of complexity with it. Of course, we’re gonna take care of that, but we, we are staying on this individual side of it in part, because that’s where we’re getting the most demand from the advisors we talk to. The clients they are engaging with, that’s, that’s where they see, the most interest for this type of a service, because for larger business owners, there are people who this is what they specialize in. And you made this point again in our last episode, that when you get into some of these areas, you want somebody who does that all day long.

You want that expert that you can go with their expertise. Uh, and so, uh, it’s one of the other questions you asked is, okay, is this, is this just Steven? Is this a team of people? Uh, and this is definitely a team of people, and it’s a team that’s gonna continue to grow. Uh, we’ve got, um, we, uh, really, really excited at the end of the year. I brought on another tax professional to the team, uh, and then we’ve got operations and support people as well. That we’re, um, that we’re really intentional about how we grow this, because we’re not here to compete with H and R block on how many 1040s we can get done.

ML:

Right. Yeah. I mean, and, and that’s, that’s not a, a, a place you want to compete. You know, we’re not, we’re not, we’re all racing to the lowest common denominator. So you’re working with individuals. And the other point is, you know, if a advisor has a client with a complex business, they’re probably working with a tax advisor already, you know, I, you know, how many people have a, you know, two or $300,000 a year schedule C and they don’t have somebody helping them deal with the things that are involved, you know? So that’s where the need’s coming from. Yeah.

SJ:

Unfortunately, I think there are quite a few people who think they can manage that on their own, but we’ve gotta, we’re scaling this intentionally so that we make sure our clients are served along the way.

ML:

Great. So I’m an advisor you’re gonna help, you know, lift off of my plate, the tax return preparation, but then when you go through and you prepare that return, you’re gonna notice or observe or see opportunities. So is there a feedback loop for me, the advisor, where do you step in with the bigger planning picture, either tax planning, or even, you know, a little bit on, on the rest of the planning process that that is touched by taxes?

SJ:

Yeah. So a point of clarification, we don’t, we don’t actually sign up clients just for tax prep. If an advisor comes and says, “Hey, I’ve got this client”, or the client comes and says, “I just want you to prepare my taxes. We can talk next year in March.” We’re saying, you know what, this isn’t the right fit. Then, uh, this, this is, this is bold with a tax preparation and tax planning relationship or, or it’s not.

ML:

Right. No, that, that actually makes perfect sense because, you know, you’re in this to co-plan with the advisor, yeah? So, talk to me about that planning side of the coin, which I’m glad is a default, because it really needs to be like that’s where our industries need to come together.

Co-Planning And Collaboration. What Does It Look Like? [14:17]

SJ:

Yeah. So, we worked with a development team to build out a portal so that we can use as a dashboard for securely collaborating on all of this. So that the RTS team, the advisor and the client can all see the same information that we can share both, the documents themselves, as well as, as you know, notes and thoughts and things like that. As we go throughout the year, that we, that we have a real clear way to communicate because for us, planning’s in kind of incorporated into everything we do, obviously during, during the, the traditional tax time of year, our, our focus is on making sure the compliance piece gets done and everything gets filed timely. We don’t want nasty grams from the IRS, but even as we go through that, we’re looking for, okay, what are, what are the opportunities we should be talking to this client about this next year? Or are there any red flags here that we need to address right now? And then once we get through the, the actual filing, then it’s we, the way I describe it to advisors is that there are things that we push to you, and then there’s things that you can pull from us. But we’re, we’re not just gonna sit back and just wait for you to call.

ML:

So is there a, did you like schedule that with the advisor and say,
“Hey, you know, we finished so, and says, return, let’s get a time later in the year to talk about it.” Or like, what’s the mechanics of that?

SJ:

So it’s gonna depend on the client’s situation a little bit for every client we’re gonna, we’re gonna send to the advisor, uh, a projection for the next year to say, “Hey, based on what we know right now. And if we do nothing else, here’s probably where they’re on track for, for this year.” And based on that, here’s 3, 4, 5 opportunities that are probably worth discussing with them. And then it becomes, that’s where the collaboration between our team and the advisor comes in. To then say, “Hey, is this something we schedule a meeting with the client, we all talk about together? Is this something that you’re gonna cover in your next client meeting? Like, how do we, how do we handle this so this is collaborative and productive for everyone?” We don’t, we don’t want this to be, you know, the, the RTS gets excited about a topic in May and start sending out information to everyone, but the advisor has already planned on sending that out in July. I mean, this, this is a, a collaborative and constructive relationship.

ML:

So I hear, you know, being a financial advisor often referred to as being like the quarterback of the team. And so coming in from RTS, it sounds like, like, you know, we’re, we’re a player on the team, or maybe we’re like the offensive coordinator, something we’re not trying to step on the toes of the big process. We’re trying to integrate into the big process and advisors spend a lot of time developing their process to make sure that they cover everything with their clients. So you are saying, “okay, how do what’s the best way for us to fit into your process?” You know, but we’ve at least pushed you off the starting information. So if I’m an advisor and I say, listen, I’m gonna incorporate this into my fee, this premier package for my client. And then, so you are going to, as a part of that, do the tax return, assuming it’s a good fit. Okay. You are gonna push back to me. Here’s some things we should thinking about, and then we’re gonna have to work together to set up where’s the time to address those issues.

SJ:

Mm-hmm, yeah, that’s a good high-level overview.

ML:

Okay. Is there a, is it normally a seasonal thing where you, you end up circling back with advisors, you know, like at the end of the year, or is it just, you know, whatever the advisor’s process is, you just work your way into that?

SJ:

We have a calendar of when we in, like I said, when we push things out, and that that’s gonna get, those are gonna get pushed to the advisor and there’s gonna be communication between us and the advisor of okay, when, when, and how does this go to the client? And so right after the tax returns filed, we’re looking at that. We’re looking at that again in the fall, we’re providing the advisor with white label content. They can use as just education pieces for their clients. And then at any time during the year, the, the advisor and the client both have the ability to reach out to us to say, okay, sure, you identified the least four opportunities, but here’s this life change that happened for this client or this unexpected source of income or whatever it might be that then they, they have through our, our portal, they have the ability to just then immediately reach out and say, “Hey, this thing changed. How, how do we incorporate this?” And so it can go in both directions.

ML:

Okay. So if there’s a change, then you just were work on it and that’s all, again, for that same premier fee, you know, it’s all part of what they paid for that year, or does it, uh, does it adjust if the, you know, something comes in that’s that was a

SJ:

Really big lift you, if something came in, that was a really big lift. Um, yes, we would, we would need to talk about that. So the, the general way this breaks down for premier is that the advisor pays to be a member, and then there’s a per client, uh, incremental cost because obviously there’s a per client lift on our end. And so the, the advise, the advisor pays, um, to have access to the portal, to have access to the tax prep program. We have a tax projection tool that the advisors can use for all of their clients, even clients who aren’t signed up in our program. Um, and then, and then there’s the, the, there’s the taxpayer piece. And on the, especially on the taxpayer side, we, one of the, we, we, we define or described in there for the taxpayer, here’s what this relationship looks looks like, so that they can see that not only are we preparing your return, that we’re getting, uh, IRS form 88, 21 on file, so that we can monitor updates from the IRS that we out these projections.

And then there, there’s a bullet point in there that says includes up to two hours of a CPA’s time, in addition to these other services. Right? And, and the reason we put that in there is because we wanna make sure that our clients know they can reach out to us. And they’re not just gonna automatically get a bill for picking up the phone or sending us an email, but also having that balance in there that, Hey, if something really complex comes up, if you tell us halfway through the year you invested in nine publicly traded partnerships <laugh>, um, that that maybe is outside of the original scope. And we’re gonna talk about that before we do the work. So there’s no surprise billing,

ML:

Right, right. No, I, I think that’s really important. And most people, most clients, they, they get it and they’re reasonable, you know, something really changed then of course, you know, the nature of how I’m gonna get answers to that is gonna change from, from what it used to be. So, so my, my clients worked with you for taxes and you’ll work directly with the client on the document gathering and the processing of the return and the delivery of the return. When you wrap up a tax return is normally a conversation with the client, like an actual talking on the phone or video conference with the client, or is there a, like a summary, like some type of a, a handoff item, or is it just gonna be the feedback like, you know, your taxes are done, here’s what you need to know. And then here’s the feedback that goes off to the advisor only, or to the advisor and the client about opportunities.

Keeping The Client In The Conversation Between Financial Professionals [21:00]

SJ:

It’s gonna be a little bit dependent on the client situation, but, but we’re, we’re gonna make sure that we’re delivering the client, what, what they need to feel comfortable in the process. And I mean to, to kind of put another couple steps in there, to make sure this is really a collaboration before we even file the return, we’re providing a draft of the return to the advisor for that, that last check of, “Hey, we we’ve gone through we’ve, we’ve gone through and done everything we can, based on all the tax documents we gather based on the conversation with the client based on your input. But hey, take one last check. Is there something that’s stands out to you of, oh, wait, this other 1099 was a QCD, we forgot to mention that.” Some of these things that in the tax prep process, we have no way to know if you don’t tell us.

And so, so we’re, we’re giving a draft return to the advisor before we even file it. Um, and then, and, and Matt, you’re, you’re plenty familiar with this, but <laugh> the IRS, the a I CPA, there’s plenty of, of regulatory bodies who have very specific rules on how information gets shared. And so that’s part of the reason we have a direct relationship with the client so that we can get their permission to be doing all of this so that this is all, every, all the do right documents are signed, that we can share that draft return, that when the return is finalized, we can share the final return. As far as communicating the planning opportunities, finishing the return itself and communicating kind of the results of, of your return was filed. Here’s your Refund repayment, making sure that all gets squared away. We’re gonna do that directly with the client.

It’s their return, we need to make sure that gets finalized. But communicating the next year’s planning opportunities. We’re gonna start with the advisor, because again, we want this to be a, a cohesive, collaborative relationship. And so we’re gonna start with the advisor and say, Hey, here’s the things that we identify that, that really need to be discussed going into this next tax year. And if we were ever to get to a situation where the advisor says, “you know what? I don’t wanna tell my client about any of those things.” That that’s a whole different thing. I mean, that, that’s why we intentionally only work with tax preparers who work with advisors in our network. So we know that we’re working with advisors committed to tax planning, that we’re not worried about someone just, just, you know, throwing away these topics.

ML:

If you’re working with good advisors, then by letting them know first they may filter and say, “listen, we’ve already talked about that strategy. It doesn’t work my client. So we don’t wanna start from ground zero. Let’s be efficient and deliberate, you know, the, the advisor can review it.” And of course, you know, if, if you had an advisor that wasn’t interested in tax planning, well, they, they probably aren’t a good fit to work with you in the first place. So that wouldn’t have happened.

SJ:

Yeah. Cause I have advisors ask me if, “Hey, can I, can I just send you some of my clients, I don’t wanna sign up for your service.” And I say, “Nope, that’s, that’s not how this works. I appreciate that you, that you think your clients would be well-served by working with us, but they’re really only getting the full value out of our service if their advisor is also working with us.”

ML:

And I think that’s, that’s really good because, you know, you’re talking about, you mentioned QCDs is a great example and giving the advisor a chance to look at the return. Well, imagine you’re in the shoes of the taxpayer, the taxpayer thinks, “Hey, I’ve got this accountant, this CPA, or, you know, EA that they’re really good. They’re working with my advisor. I don’t need to relay any additional information, obviously that QCD information made it across the table.” Well, you know, I hate to let my human show, but, you know, there’s, that could have been missed. So by giving the, the advisor that chance to review the return, you know, you’re really saying “we are going to be deliberate and thoughtful about this. We’re gonna go down the checklist to stuff, you know, so that the client is right when they assume that we’re having that conversation.” So if you’re not providing it to the advisor, look at it, advance, you know, man land mines a plenty in that direction.

SJ:

We wanted this service to be set up in a way that there’s so much value to the advisor and the client both, that essentially it’s a no-brainer. And for the, the advisors who sign up that that’s essentially the, the answer we get that this is the right fit. This is a no brainer. Let’s do this. O of my recent guests shared a story of a, a mistake that was made on a tax return because the equity position got moved between custodians and the basis wasn’t reported. And so when it got reported on the tax return, there’s essentially a zero basis and this massive gain that wasn’t real. But since the advisor didn’t get to see a draft tax return, because that almost never happens, it took 18 months to get the issue completely corrected because the return got filed.

It had to be amended. The IRS is phenomenally backlogged. And so J just think of just that, that one piece of it and the impact that could have on the taxpayer, uh, of let’s let’s have that second check of someone who has more context, this, this isn’t, I, I’m not asking the advisors to be much quality control. I’m not saying, Hey, I don’t know what I’m doing. So you need to double check for me. This is as the advisor, you have context, I might not, uh, and that I’m not gonna see on some of those tax documents. So take a look and let me know and, and say, wait a second, you’ve got a half million dollars of capital gains in here. Like where that come from? And I said, well, okay, well, here’s the forms that came from, they say, oh, this basis didn’t get reported. Or that was actually a rollover that didn’t get marked, as far as I knew, it was a as an accurate tax return, but they have that context that I’m not going to have.

ML:

Yeah, no. And we talk the last episode about each half of those coin has certain information that they’re privy to, that they don’t realize is in their silo and isn’t shared. And so by breaking down these walls and, you know, creating a collaborative process, we’re really gonna protect the client. You know, I remember we had a case where a advisor was doing, uh, a back outdoor Roth contributions each year. And then we saw a 5498 come in in June for a traditional IRA that had a fair market value of, you know, $70,000. Well, the advisor thought in working with the client, they captured everything, but they didn’t, this one account had just gotten lost over time. And the client, the client didn’t even know, they’re like, I don’t know why I get this every year. It’s this thing from, you know, and I’m like, this is your money.

ML:

Like, you know where this, so then we had to go back and we had to deal with that. And they were amended returns. You know, the advisor doesn’t get 54 90 eights except for, you know, whatever generated inside their asset management system. But as a tax professional, you know, we pull transcripts for our clients. We’re gonna see 54 90 eights. So, uh, yeah. So that’s very interesting, which, which leads me to another question. So you’re working with an advisor and that advisor has a situation and they go, oh gosh, I don’t know the tax impacts of this in this premier service. Can they, uh, get some tax research or some advice? Like, how, how do you help when, I mean, there’s messy situations out there where you’re just not sure.

SJ:

Yeah. So, so through the, the portal that the advisor has access to, um, they, they have the ability to, to, to reach out on those. And, and one of the ways this collaboration is so impactful is that the advisor can go into their portal and either they can say, Hey, I’ve got this issue. That’s coming up with a lot of my clients. So they can send a, a, you know, send a, a request to our team in general to say, Hey, I, I need some need some research. I need some help on this specific topic. Or they can say, okay, for Bob and Sue, here’s this issue that came up. And so they submit the ticket directly for Bob and Sue. So now it’s not this vague question that I, that I have, and we need to schedule a time so I can get all the context. I just pull up Bob and Sue’s tax return and all their information. And I say, okay, great, here it all is. And then I either go back to the advisor and say, yep, it’s a simple thing. You know, 1, 2, 3, here’s the points you need to know. Um, you know, let us know if you have any other questions or I say, you know what? This is complicated. Let’s all get on the phone. And let’s address this.

ML:

Right. Okay. So that’s, I mean, if I’m an advisor and I am, you know, tax curious and, and, you know, I don’t have years of chops in this space, but I’m developing to be able to put a handout and ask somebody cause you know, and this goes back to like, there are no stupid questions type of thing. If we’re gonna collaborate in the client’s best interest, you can’t pretend that, you know, everything I don’t know is a very powerful phrase. We, we talk with in our office and our team all the time. Like it is not only acceptable, it’s preferred that you say, I don’t know, then to try to act like, you know, and so for an advisor to say, you know, this has come up, let me go to a source of knowledge that can answer, I know this. And then my client and I can move on with confidence in the direction we’re going.

ML:

I mean, that’s a, that’s a massive value just standing right there, because if you’re an advisor and you’re not working with, you know, retirement tax services, where are you getting that question answered? You know, are you gonna spend five hours of your own time doing tax research when you’re not even used to the tax material? I mean time about, you know, not highest and best need. So that’s, that’s really great. And I, that that’s, I think it’s essential that you’ve designed that into the process. Um, just a couple more questions. This is really painting a good picture. Um, so as you’ve worked with, um, advisors, and I know you’re early in the process, are there are some like early successes that maybe are surprising you like, like places before you’re even getting into the first round of tax returns where you’re going, oh, wow. You know, this is, this has been good already.

SJ:

Yeah. I should have come prepared with specific case studies. Um, but yeah, there’s, there’s a couple that come to mind, even just doing our initial, um, tax return reviews, because the first thing, this is just something I’m gonna do, whether it was part of the service or not the first time I get a tax return, cuz I’m always gonna start with the prior tax return. I’m gonna go through it and say, okay, what stands out to me? Uh, and so I’ve already had several advisors come back to me. Uh, a lot of times what I’ll do. Uh, and I do this for our essentials members as well, but on a very scaled down basis. So you can send me a return, I’ll send you a video back sharing my insight. And so I’ll send, ’em a five minute video and the, the responses I get are, you know, uh, just so, so grateful.

SJ:

And so appreciative that just in that, in those five minutes, just because it’s something I do, I can pick out and say, Hey, did, did you realize that your client’s getting a $30,000 refund every year? And that they can do something about that? Uh, you know, just is so sometimes it’s even just simple things. Uh, and then, and then the advisors also share the impact that has on their clients, because even though they share with their client, Hey, I had a CPA review. This the client is still giving the advisor the credit for having gone and asked. So even though I’m the one doing the work, the advisor gets the credit and I’m fine with that. This is a collabo. So the way you, you talked about the advisor being the quarterback, I usually describe it as we wanna keep you in the driver’s seat of your client’s financial plan. Uh, but either way, this is a collaboration, you take all the credit, I’m fine with that.

ML:

Yeah. You know, it, it’s amazing what can come up in a, in a review. I, I had a, a new client review this morning where I could see the client started investing over the last three years cuz dividends and capital gains were coming on the board. And I asked the client, I said, oh, you know, are you, you know, contributing to a, a Roth? And um, they weren’t contributing, you know, so there was this opportunity each year to maybe backdoor some Roth money each year and invest in a tax free manner instead of a taxable manner. And you haven’t even done a tax return yet. So I’m, I’m sure some of your advisors are already on, on, on top of that part of it, but it just an example of, you know, and this is where, you know, you review returns for your advisors. They need to get into bit of reviewing the returns as well, so that they can just better have this conversation, you know, see what’s going on. Maybe even even identify this client, I should be sending over to RTS because I can see there’s some complexities on the tax return. I think they’re gonna help drive value in this process.

Action Items [33:03]

SJ:

Well, Matt, I really, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. I’m not sure I’m, I’m gonna be able to convince anybody that we’re not related or something cuz uh, this has been, this has been a great conversation for me. We, we need to, we need to wrap up and get ourselves pointed towards action items. Um, and so, um, I I’ll, I’ll, I’ll start with, if you’re, if you’re interested in the conversation that we’re having, you can go out to retirement tech services.com, learn more about the services that we offer. The, the second piece to that for me is that for advisors listening, um, Matt made a really good point. If, if, if you need to know where this type of information is gonna come from for you, even if that’s not retirement tech services and it very well might not be, make sure that you have some sort of resource that’s not named Google, Google has lots of information. It is not specific to you or your clients. So you need, you need to have that resource. You need to, you need to put the effort in to develop that resource.

ML:

Yeah, there, there are, you know, it was occurred to me. There are some professional organizations out there that are, you know, tax accountant organizations that you’re not required to like have some designation to join. You could just join one that come to mind is N a TP, the national association of tax professionals. Like when, when you join that organization, you’re gonna get a, a, a tax like a, a monthly newsletter that talks about taxes and tax courts. And you know, don’t be in, this is how you quit being intimidated by that is by, you know, reading and listening and talking. And some of the, as organizations, that’ll also have a research service, you know, it’s not gonna be as in depth as that personal relationship with, with retirement tax services or, uh, or you know, your client’s accountant, but it’s a place to start, you know, um, and, and get you some answers. So I, I, I think you’re right. You need to get on board that continuing education, train for taxes too. Perfect.

SJ:

Love that. Right. Recommendation, Matt, thanks so much for, for taking the time to, to be here for this episode. And for the last episode, it’s been great having Yon.

ML:

I I’ve learned a lot. I’ve had a wonderful conversation, Steven thanks for having me.

SJ:

For everyone listening, uh, good luck out there. And until next time, remember to tip your server and not the IRS.